Quantity or quality. Guts vs bulls

Oh yes, I realise all of that Unfortuneatly, 8th ed is just have a big horde and charge forward with magic by your side. Monsters, Chariots and beasts were great in 6th and still good in 7th, but now... no.
In the last tournie i was at, I faced an Arkhan the Black, Herald on a chariot, 2 5 men chariot units, 100 archers and 2 caskets. It sucked.

For you or for him? Barring a P-Sun bombardment, that sounds like the type of list that Ogres would eat for breakfast.

Hmm i HAVE had the bad fortune to face 1 Arkhan in my time. He makes magic fun ( for anyone but you ) but other than that, Perhaps its the luck of the Maw but i have never had chariots do anything but bounce off my mighty bulk before being tramped over. And 100 archers is like a mere Mosquito storm to the likes of us. I trust you mocked your opponent VIGOROUSLY before crushing his hopes ( AND ARMY ) But yes ... Arkhan... dirty dirty named character. Ya know what Brainfreeze, Brothers in arms vs Arkhan, HAVE A GNOBLAR!

I've found this post to be quite good, because everyone seems to post the facts that have been discussed numerous times over.
But one thing that i must have missed is fielding Ig's in ranks of 3 with 2 characters to soak up wounds, i've always fielded mine in ranks of 4 or even 5 to get as many attacks as possible, adding another Ig in front rank means 6 more attacks str 6...
Do people not do this in general?

Too many points in one unit - chaff love and a date with Mr Sun?

And of course get a lot of wounsd knocked off your unit before you get to swing.

Hmm i HAVE had the bad fortune to face 1 Arkhan in my time. He makes magic fun ( for anyone but you ) but other than that, Perhaps its the luck of the Maw but i have never had chariots do anything but bounce off my mighty bulk before being tramped over. And 100 archers is like a mere Mosquito storm to the likes of us. I trust you mocked your opponent VIGOROUSLY before crushing his hopes ( AND ARMY ) But yes ... Arkhan... dirty dirty named character. Ya know what Brainfreeze, Brothers in arms vs Arkhan, HAVE A GNOBLAR!

Gee, thanks man! I didn't roll poorly, but he just rolled amazingly. He 4 diced puple sun and got 21! Good ol' dipell scroll though. Funny enough, I won combat against the chariots, and I over-ran a mighty 11 into his archers. Followed up by MFC, I just laughed hysterically at how fast that unit began to evaporate. Brothers in arms my friend. Till we have his head on our table, then we stop at nothing!
I personally preffer the two being in my list, as it fills up core and fills up weaknesses. Ironguts pack a punch (for 5000 credits  ) against heavy armour and monsters whereas Bulls blend through soft units.
Ofcourse, we can all say that 1 particular horde rules them all:
An Ironblaster Horde!

Sweet Maw almighty that's genius, now lets see... its a rare.. so to make a chariot horde we need what..6 on the front rank? For the sake of experimentation we will just ignore that "Only aloud 2" rule. Anyway, i respect your choice to keep the lesser ogres in  But alas I think its pure Ironguts for this guy

I've actually been murdered by a TK Chariot charge before. No, what I think the average TK player's problem is is that they never seem to realise their archers SUCK. Seriously TK players, get chariots for a core, tonnes of special, and stop faffing around with units that hit on 5's with STRENGTH 3.


Ahem. Anyway, I find it's always best to have at least one unit of Ironguts around to deal with certain threats. Bulls are never necessary, but their cheapness combined with the fact that they're still very effective means you can't go wrong with them and they're useful in a variety of situations (especially with buff spells, as has been stated).

Being a TK player myself, I agree their archers are terrible. I only ever use them for bunkering a mage. They can be good with Khalida in a 40-60 man unit, but other than that, bunker your Heirophant and leave the rest of the archers at home!

As for the topic, I run a unit of each. Guts for their banner and for can opening, and bulls for an anvil. Both units never let me down and I am always please I had both.

Well, if you're not willing to pack massive numbers and work the odds, I agree, TK archers are terrible. Once you start taking 80 or so of them (particularly if you make a massive block of 'em and throw Khalida in there for spice), they can do some damage.

Either way, I know that what I'm intrigued by these days is the combination of Skeleton Warriors with Light Armor and Shields and a Prince as a surprisingly durable anvil and GW Ushabti as the hammers. Throw in some Death mages/Scorpions/Necrosphinxes for character sniping and a block of Flaming Chariots to run over Regenerating monsters and you have yourself an army.