Golgfag Is The Man.....(Eater)

Hello all , ill get straight to the point golgfag man eater I love the fluff love the model but the problem is I was going to write a list up of all the things I would give him with all the results you could get on 2 D6. But I really don't no where to start I mean overall he has a good stat line. Maybe his Int could get buff by a potion or give him WS10 or Strength buff. I would say he could use some good save. I'm just lost what would you give him? Where would you start?

Hey I know you like the fluff on this guy but here's the downside of picking this special character.

1) He's a little over priced at 260pts in a hero slot
2) His roll for magic items is random (even though these pts are free the roll could be really bad or good)
3) He's really not worth it, you are better off with having a upgraded Tyrant or Brusier

I think I would have a list of "basic" upgrades for every possible roll written up beforehand. This makes life a bit easier when you've rolled a particular number and you can always change it on the fly.

Here's what I'm thinking I'd want on him.

- A ward save. I'm expecting Golgfag to be ranging ahead and not necessarily with the support of a gut caster, can't count on trollguts.
- Other Trickster's Shard, if you don't have it on another character. Since Golgfag is going to be with maneaters and probably not with other characters, he isn't going to affect those around him.
- A magic weapon and the nice thing is you can pick it after you know what you're facing. The ASF sword? The sword of anti-heroes? Just a sword of striking?
- A cheap boost to his armour.

Such a great model, unfortunately he is about 100 points too expensive.  If you average 70 points of magic items a game...you are paying 190 points for +1T/+1WS/+1W/+1I/+1A.  If he had leadership 9 then it'd be totally worth it.  As is, it's just a point sink for a great model with the most epic name ever.

That being said, if you run him...your points should go into

1) Ward save
2) Heavy Armour with Ward Save
3) Weapon to increase attacks or initiative and get a "magical attack"

in that order.  I'd also have a "fun" backup.  Like always have a rule that if you roll 10+ you put a wizarding hat on him and make him a random wizard, just for the fun of it.   Then if you roll 2 6's give him a powerstone or a chanelling staff.

To be honest though, he's never going to kill 260 points of stuff and he doesn't confer any buff to his maneaters...so he's a losing proposition, albeit a fun one.

The problem with Golgfag is mainly that you're paying for a Hero with an item allowance he might or might not get... but when you compare his cost to a regular Bruiser, you're basically already paying for the items you supposedly get for free. He has one or two other stats, and can get Maneater bonuses, but that's about it really.

I'd basically go for the 2+ armour or the 4+ ward, and if you hit 100 it's Wizard Hat time! Since you're already going nuts why not.

Here's a list for you; feel free to change it or build off it:
20: Enchanted Shield, Sword of Striking
30: Enchanted Shield, Sword of Swift Slaying
40: Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Endurance, Warrior Bane
50: Armor of Silvered Steel/Talisman of Preservation, Warrior Bane
60: Talisman of Preservation, Enchanced Shield, Biting Blade
70: Enchanted Shiled, Talisman of Preservation, Sword of Striking, Potion of Foolhardiness
80: Armor of Silvered Steel, Dawnstone, Biting Blade
90: Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Endurance
100: Armor of Silvered Steel, Talisman of Preservation, Biting Blade OR Wizarding Hat!
110: Sword of Bloodshed, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield OR Wizarding Hat, Enchanted Shield, Warrior Bane
120: Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Preservation, Other Trickster's Shard

The problem with Golgfag is mainly that you're paying for a Hero with an item allowance he might or might not get... but when you compare his cost to a regular Bruiser, you're basically already paying for the items you supposedly get for free. He has one or two other stats, and can get Maneater bonuses, but that's about it really.

Well, he has some other perks that might make him viable in a competitive list ... but his rules are so damn unclear...

Question (1): Does he have Stubborn and Vanguard all the time? (As opposed to only when he's with Golgfag's Maneaters)
Question (2a): If yes (all the time), can he join another unit of Maneaters with different BT;DT rules?
Question (2b): If no (only with GM), can he join another unit of Maneaters and gain their BT;DT rules?

If (1) is yes, then he has merit as a Stubborn character. With the Crown of Command on another character, that's TWO units of bulls or guts that are stubborn. Take some stubborn Maneaters and you can make your whole line Stubborn. Stubborn is worth a great deal on a character. The crown of command is vastly underpriced (you see it as a 1+ item in most armies) and Beastmen pay 70 points to make a character stubborn (and that's still worth it!).

If (2a) is yes, then you can conceivably stack maneater rules. For example, if you have a unit with Vanguard and Poison, then adding Golgfag to them, the whole unit gets Vanguard, Stubborn and Poison (well, Golgfag doesn't get poison but you can always give him a magic weapon to make you feel better about that.).

If (2b) is yes, then you can get some other options, like Scout or Poison on Golgfag. With certain magic item combinations, that could be fun.

My major issue is his rules are unclear and the FAQ does absolutely nothing to clear up what we were wanting to know about how his rules interacted. Particularly if he has Stubborn permanently, it could make him worth his exorbitant cost especially in bigger games to give you a Double Death Star build!

If (2b) is yes, then you can get some other options, like Scout or Poison on Golgfag. With certain magic item combinations, that could be fun.

Just FYI:  He can never get Scout, as he gains that by deploying with the Scouting unit, and that will never occur because he must deploy with characters before the scouts go.

And I think it is 2b.

-Snark

Thanks everyone for your replies :-) and iv had a look around and I'm still lost with the whole golgfag always has Stubborn and vanguard. does that mean the rest of his maneater get these two rules aswell as there selection from "Been there done that" rules?

If (2b) is yes, then you can get some other options, like Scout or Poison on Golgfag. With certain magic item combinations, that could be fun.

Just FYI:  He can never get Scout, as he gains that by deploying with the Scouting unit, and that will never occur because he must deploy with characters before the scouts go.

And I think it is 2b.

-Snark

I was wondering about that... Not much point worrying about that though since the whole thing is so confused.

Thanks everyone for your replies :-) and iv had a look around and I'm still lost with the whole golgfag always has Stubborn and vanguard. does that mean the rest of his maneater get these two rules aswell as there selection from "Been there done that" rules?

No, it wouldn't mean that... but Stubborn is transferred from a character to his unit.

If (2b) is yes, then you can get some other options, like Scout or Poison on Golgfag. With certain magic item combinations, that could be fun.

Just FYI:  He can never get Scout, as he gains that by deploying with the Scouting unit, and that will never occur because he must deploy with characters before the scouts go.

And I think it is 2b.

-Snark

I was wondering about that... Not much point worrying about that though since the whole thing is so confused.

Thanks everyone for your replies :-) and iv had a look around and I'm still lost with the whole golgfag always has Stubborn and vanguard. does that mean the rest of his maneater get these two rules aswell as there selection from "Been there done that" rules?

No, it wouldn't mean that... but Stubborn is transferred from a character to his unit.

hmmm....so I could have a unit of maneaters with say..Vanguard and Swiftstride and then adding golfgag would make them stubborn too.  Hmmm...that's worth a few points.  Dude should be leadership 9..if he was I'd roll with him every game.  Damn Jervis....THE OG maneater should be braver then all of the imitation maneaters...lol

He wouldn't get Swiftstride though. The two main possibilities are he either gets "Stubborn and Vanguard" or "Whatever BT;DT rules possessed by a unit of Maneaters that he joins".

I don't think this is unclear.

Per the FAQ:  "Q: Is Golgfag Maneater a Maneater? Does he also gain the Stubborn
and Vanguard special rules when he joins his unit of Maneaters (due
to the Been There, Done That special rule)? (p57)
A: Yes to both questions. He is, after all, Golgfag Maneater!"

So he gains Stubborn/Vanguard when he joins HIS unit of Maneaters because he is a maneater and subject to Been There, Done That.  He doesn't always have Stubborn/Vanguard (or any of his own BT/DT rules), he only gains it when in a maneater unit with the BTDT of Stubborn/Vanguard (or etc).

I really think his points aren't so bad.  He is 149 pts more than a Bruiser with Ogre Pistol (which Golgfag has).  You average 70 pts in magic items with Easy Come, Easy Go (not to mention the value of deciding what magic items to take at the end of the deployment phase).  So you have to decide if the other 79 pts is worth paying to get +1 initiative, +1 attack, and 2 special rules of your choice.  Keep in mind that the +1 attack weapon is worth 20 pts.  I would value +1 initiative as being even more valuable (probably at least 35 pts).  And the two special rules could be worth at least 100 pts together.  With this in mind, I think Golgfag is a good price and one of two special characters (the other being Skragg) I could see being really effective in a list.  I love the idea of a Swiftstride, Stubborn character.  Or Poison...

-Snark

Ok so pretty much he has whatever rules his maneaters choose + stubborn ?

Snarkhunter... I agree, that's probably the best interpretation of RAW. And that's how I would expect RAW to be ruled - he doesn't have Been There, Done That himself, but other maneaters give their Been There, Done That to him.

I'm rather reluctant to say this is the "right" answer though, I don't think the intent of Golgfag's rules was ever that he could join, say, a poison/swiftstride unit and gain those rules.

Behemoth_89, no he would only get whatever rules his maneaters choose. Either he personally has Stubborn/Vanguard or he gains the rules of any unit he joins.

Ah rightio I'm with ya so if his unit has scout / swiftstride he gets but he transfers stubborn to the unit

Ah rightio I'm with ya so if his unit has scout / swiftstride he gets but he transfers stubborn to the unit

Sorry I think I confused you. He doesn't have the Stubborn rule independently of his Been There, Done That rule. Stubborn is transferred from a character onto his unit ... but what we've just been discussing is whether or not Golgfag has it at all.

Either:

Golgfag has the Been There, Done That rules of Stubborn and Vanguard all the time. (In which case he has Stubborn but he doesn't gain the BT,DT rules of an Maneater unit he joins).

Or:

Golgfag gains the Been There, Done That rules of whatever Maneater unit he joins. (In which case he doesn't have Stubborn unless he joins a maneater unit with that rule).

Golfag gains whatever BTDT rules a unit has when he joins them, which can be at deployment.

However due to that wording he can never benifit from Scout because he can only gain it once he is in the unit and Scout occurs at deployment so he can't benifit.

But everything else works. If he's in a unit with Poison and Sniper he has those 2 rules. If he left and joined another unit he would gain their rules too.

Obviously I'd suggest clearing a general consensus with your gaming group/ checking your Tournament Organiser's interpretation before list submission, and make that the "rule" even if it goes against what seems to make sense (hey, it's there tournament, they can house rule whatever the hell they want). For pickup games though, I think the easiest way to work him is in a double-Maneater list.

Give one unit Scout and stubborn, the other Vanguard and say poison. Plan to have Golgfag join the vanguard unit (as he can't deploy with the scouts).

Before deployment, show the entry to your opponent.

scenario 1: Golgfag has Vanguard/ Stubborn - enjoy your free stubborn! Get him a magic weapon as he doesn't get the Poison rule.

scenario 2: Golgfag has units rules (In this instance Vanguard/ Poison) and you roll up 40pts+ of items for him (33/36 chance) - Buy him the Crown of Command and probably no magic weapon (unless you roll 100pts+) and enjoy his 6 (with Additional Hand Weapon) poisoned attacks and BS4 poisoned shot along with your stubborn. Also, lament the fact there's nothing saying Golgfag can take Big Names as GiantBreaker would be great in this scenario.

scenario 3: Golgfag has units rules (In this instance Vanguard/ Poison) and you roll up < 40pts of items for him (3/36 chance) - worst case scenario, but you'll still have a stubborn unit in the enemies face early thanks to the scouts and a combat character with stats on par with many lords (still with 6 poisoned attacks as you'll probably want to invest the majority of his item allowance into protection) vanguarding into a good position.

Either way you have a good chance of getting stubborn on his unit and you also come across as the awesome guy who let his opponent determine the situation instead of causing a rules arguement. Makes the whole battle go a lot smoother than causing a fuss right at the outset. If the opponents a jerk about it and decides to make a choice based on whats best for him/her self then you've probably just saved yourself an hours arguement and can get onto another game with another opponent that much faster.

PS. Another interesting thought. If your not using a tyrant, you could make Golgfag your general... Give his unit Standard of Discipline and the scouts the Gleaming Pennant and they won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe take only 1 main block of core troops to carry your BSB and give them the Banner of Swiftness (+1 Movement) to really get your army in the enemies face ASAP. Either way it would help spread your LD support around by not bunkering your general and BSB together and would split your main targets into 3 (Lvl.4 mage, BSB, General) as opposed to having a slaughtermaster leading your army and making him worth even more points for your enemy to kill.

Only one maneater unit may have a magic banner, so nix that last idea.  And the only issue with giving the CoC to golgfag is that it means you didn't give it to another, more durable unit.  Other than that, good breakdown.