Variety in the Ogre Kingdoms

Hey guys, so after a few months break I am looking to get back into Warhammer. In planning my lists I seem to always take the same few things and this gets very boring for me. In general I usually play 2400pt games using some comp (1 Ironblaster and the 450pt cap from ETC) and I am usually facing High Elves, Empire and Lizardmen/Brets.

For my games I tend to be taking a Lv 4 SM, BSB, Lv 2 caster, 9-10 Ogres with BSB and Lv 2 and 8-9 Ironguts with Discipline Banner and SM general. I then usually take 2-3 Sabretusks and sometimes a few units of Gnoblars for chaff. I then finish my lists off with a small unit of Leadies and unit of 3-4 tooled up MFC a pair of Gorgers and an Ironblaster.

I have tried branching out of this standard form by trying to take Maneaters and Thundertusk/Stonehorn monsters, but every time I do, I usually get shut down or find that these units aren't nearly as affective as the standard ones I play. Am I just playing these choices incorrectly? Any ideas on some different but equally-competative lists would be more than welcome.

P.S. wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the General Discussion, if someone could please move it to its proper spot that would be great.

Cheers,
Triddion

Hey guys, so after a few months break I am looking to get back into Warhammer. In planning my lists I seem to always take the same few things and this gets very boring for me. In general I usually play 2400pt games using some comp (1 Ironblaster and the 450pt cap from ETC) and I am usually facing High Elves, Empire and Lizardmen/Brets.

For my games I tend to be taking a Lv 4 SM, BSB, Lv 2 caster, 9-10 Ogres with BSB and Lv 2 and 8-9 Ironguts with Discipline Banner and SM general. I then usually take 2-3 Sabretusks and sometimes a few units of Gnoblars for chaff. I then finish my lists off with a small unit of Leadies and unit of 3-4 tooled up MFC a pair of Gorgers and an Ironblaster.

I have tried branching out of this standard form by trying to take Maneaters and Thundertusk/Stonehorn monsters, but every time I do, I usually get shut down or find that these units aren't nearly as affective as the standard ones I play. Am I just playing these choices incorrectly? Any ideas on some different but equally-competative lists would be more than welcome.

P.S. wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the General Discussion, if someone could please move it to its proper spot that would be great.

Cheers,
Triddion

What I've found from playing Ogres and a couple of other WHFB armies is that named characters and monsterous creatures typically aren't worth their point value competitively.  There are exceptions (Skaven Hell Pit for instance), but in general...if you take a stonehorn or thundertusk or Giant or something big, you aren't going to be that competitive with it.

With maneaters, I'm playing with it now...but it's probably that you aren't playing them in an effective manner based on your other army choices and your playstyle.  I'd try different special rules and weapons until you figure out a good combo for yourself.
 
I personally dislike MFC and Leadies competitively....for different reasons.  It looks like to me though that you have bit of everything in your army....jack of all trades stuff.   Try to have an army that is good at one specific thing (CC...ogres, IG's, ME's, Killy Heroes)...or shooting (2 x Iron Blasters, Maneaters with pistols, leadies)...or is just fast (swiftstride ME's, lots of MFC, maybe a hunter with sabretusks)....and try to get a consistent thread going instead of just a bunch of random units.

Just my 2 cents

ThegreatMawk has a point about being competitive. Your playstyle and army should be focused in one strategy. It may not be as fun as an idea, but it usually wins "a bit everything" list.

That been said, I play myself a list that is very similar to yours. I dont use gnoblars, but I play two casters, two kitties, bsb, bulls, IG's, MFc, gorger, blaster and TT. So far, I have been able to win some competetive list. Playing TT and trying to compete with the best is a thing master. So far I have found out, that it can be very usefull, but takes time and practice to learn how to use it. I personally think TT is a better, or as good as, choise as 8 leadies.

Im putting together my leadies and ME's, but for now Im playing without them and with a mammoth.

In my experience (coming from 40k experience rather than WHFB experience, so take with however many grains of salt you wish) it very well could be your strategies/playing style just as well as what you switched out that gets you shut down. If you are used to a certain army list with a certain strategy, then when you change the army list it isn't always easy to adapt (immediately that is) what strategic mode of thought you are used to.

That said, some combinations are clearly worse/better than others, but in my opinion, if your main problem is boredom maybe you should think of playing with or in a way that may not be as efficient at winning but more fun and interesting. You may lose more often, but whats the point of winning if it isn't that fun of a win?

So, try just thinking out of the box and about what your opponent may expect from you, and change it up a little bit, tweak some flaws, and who knows, you may end up with a very fun and good army.

Or don't... Just a suggestion based on how I like to play :-).

Cheers

The problem with your list is basically that you lack two things in the leadbelchers and mournfang:
- Target saturation
- Mass to soak it up.
You have two units there that start being very scary in turn one and two.
But if your opponent take one or two models off, the horde units are not THAT scared of them.

In my opinion you have too many chaff units.
I'd choose for sabretusks or gnoblars.
There are many discussions which choice would be better, but in the end I wouldn't mix them.
And before people start this discussion again in this thread: DON'T

I've come to see that the best results and the best games (not necessary the same) are played when you play a style you like:
If you want quick combat, then get into combat quickly, make sure you have two units of 4 or 5 mournfang and start shoving them into enemy units.
If you like shooting, then hang back, take another chaff unit, create speedbumps and shoot with all the lead you have.
If you like a combination, then you need more time to get it under control, especially when to charge and when not to.

In my opinion (and most of the better players I know) the biggest problem in ogre kingdoms is, what to keep in the special choices: Mournfang, maneaters and leadbelchers and then even sabretusks.
So try to get your core more to 600 points in stead of the 800 points you've invested in them now, and try to put those 200 points in the mournfang and leadbelchers and see what happens

Thanks for all of the input and advice guys.

Personally, I want to play more of a combat/magic army. I have a dwarf army already so I get enough of the shooting there. However I've noticed that if I don't take a small unit of 3-4 Leadies, chaff just runs all over me. I dislike relying on magic to clear chaff simply because my opponent can stop it. I like a little bit of everything to be honest but I want to favor a more combat/magic style rather than shooting. I definitely want to be advancing on the enemy rather than sitting back - again, I get that from my Dwarf army.

Any suggestions of what I should take for this combo? MFC and Maneaters? The only problem I can see is that chaff with have a field day with me if I don't have a reliable way of removing them.

I think that with this style, I will prefer the speed of Sabretusks for misdirectors. Any suggestions for trimming my core? Should I drop the Ogre unit down to like 6-7 or so and use it as a supporter?

Triddion

I would say gear your Maneaters up to pop chaff. Remember that pistols count as AHWs in combat and thus improve your fighting prowess.

Thanks for all of the help and input guys. Here's what I've come up with so far, let me know what you think.

SM Lv 4, BSB, Firebelly Lv 1, Ironguts x8, Ogres x6, Sabretusk, Sabretusk, Maneaters x6 - Dual Pistols, Stubborn, Poison, MFC x4 - Full Upgrades and Dragonhide and an Ironblaster.

I went for Fencer's/Glittering Scales and Crown of Command with Gut Magic on the SM, a Dispel Scroll and Potion of Speed on the Firebelly and HA/Enchanted Shield with Talisman of Pres. on my BSB.

This leaves me with 116pts, what do you guys think? I'm thinking of adding to the 6 Ogres but any other suggestions and input would be more than welcome.

Cheers,
Triddion