Best Maneater Special Rule Combos...not just opinions

My buddy and I were going back and forth on this today..and I've only ever run them one way.  Scout and Stubborn, Extra Hand Weapons in front, 3 x 2.   

We were math hammering a bit and it just got ridiculous all of the possibilities..so figured I'd ask you all, from real life games...what is your total favorite combo with Maneater Special Rules and Weapons?

Some combos that were failed math hammers....

Brace of Pistols + anything was horrible...they are far too many points.  With scout, with poison...too many points for an assassin unit hitting on 4's and 5's. 

Putting Great Weapons in back.  So, they go last and get killed first eh?  great weapons were far too many points to justify rolling to wound on 2's instead of 3's against most things.

Golgfag....just horrible.  Can he carry a hellheart?...if you put him with a stubborn squad and just kamikazied him into the heart of the opponent to bust a hellheart (if he rolled a 5+ on Magic EQ)....there is a chance he could make his 120ish point waste valuable...that's all we could come up with.

Stuff We liked

"We aren't going anywhere, we are just going to annoy you" Squad - Scout + Stubborn  (+ gleaming pendant banner)

"Live Fast, Die Young" Squad - Vanguard, Swiftstride (+ Movement Banner)


we gave Xtra hand weapons to the front and that's it...no heavy armour, the lack of an ironfist made it a point sink (+8% cost for much less value...if you are fighting st3 stuff they won't wound enough...the value vs strength 4 attacks didn't stop enough just with the 6 up).  Like I said...serious math hammer, with math..and dice...for like an hour...

Anyway...HIT ME with real life setups you've taken and actual feedback on the 1-2 most successful setups you've run.

Unit Size and set up -
Special Rules -
Weapons -
Results -

Go go go

Hmm, first off: comparing units is not that wise, because of synergy bonuses.
I think brace of pistols and sniper work quite well, if you add a few death wizards with them.
Now you can kill characters in the first turns and ogres are so much better when it is unit versus unit.

My favorite set up is 8 maneaters with 3xGW, 4xXHW and 1 naked, banner musician and gleaming pendant.
Give them scout and swiftstride.
8 maneaters is hard to break.
The GW's make sure I can hit monsters and good armour saves.
They usually make the charge.
They have a 30% chance of ogre charge
They overrun as far as any cavalry or flying unit.

And most important: they start with messing up the opponents deployment.

Some of my favorite builds:

1) 4 man eaters, one rank, with extra hand weapon. Swiftstride and ItP. Great little 200ish point unit to protect a flank of a gutstar.
2) 6 maneaters, front three brace. Scout and poison. Banner of eternal flame. Anti-regen/pro-flammable unit. (Great against WoC, DE, TK, Woodies, etc)
3) 7-8 maneaters, stubborn and ItP. Character bunker. Tough as nails maneater star...
4) 6 maneaters, all with brace. Poison, ItP or stubborn, and poison. I will try to deploy this unit if I think there will be a watchtower I can garrison in the scouting phase.

Brace of Pistols, Sniper, and Poison easily rivals Scout+Anything.  Scout+Anything is basically a distraction/sacrificial unit, completely cut off from support, easily killed in detail, and easily defended against by any canny general in the deployment phase.

sniper+poison+brace is both a potent ranged AND melee unit, and when run in groups of 6 is statistically guaranteed to kill an unprotected Hero-level character at long range.  Multiple volleys make short work of even level 4 wizards.  I cannot count the number of games that have swung on me killing a BSB or a wizard, not only on a points-for-points basic, but also because it is impossible to quantify what the sudden loss of a particular ability has on an army as a whole.

If you're looking for statistics, we can oblige you.  If you're looking for hard and definitive "This way is best" answers, you're not going to get them because they simply don't exist.

I use maneaters with great succes. I use scout and poison. Under 2000 points I use 6: half brace of pistols and other half great weapons. Over 2000 I use 8. I am on the verge of dropping the pistols for extra handweapons, cause I am more in cc then shooting my opponents. With scout I end up on the flanks of my opponents and disrupt their battlelines. In my last battles they crushed 3 units per battle with flank charges. I like the mix with great weapons cause you can face everything. I have an all comer mentality and they work for me in all kind of situations. It is a smart choice to take a fall guy without extras to absorb the first wounds. Poison is nice, but I want to swap it for swiftstride to have a higher chance of charging something.  Their greatest strength is the ability to scout and disrupt your opponents plans turn 1.

I run my maneaters in the following configuration.

Front Rank: Brace of Pistols

Second Rank: GWs

Third and beyond ranks: nothing

BTDT rules: Poison and Stubborn

Heavy Armor and magic banner if I have points.


It always does well.

I like and use
4 with scout and ITP.  Death cube that you have to kill to a man(eater)  Not many backfield units can stand up to these boys and it diverts units away from mournfang and ironguts.

Brace of Pistols, Sniper, and Poison easily rivals Scout+Anything.  Scout+Anything is basically a distraction/sacrificial unit, completely cut off from support, easily killed in detail, and easily defended against by any canny general in the deployment phase.

sniper+poison+brace is both a potent ranged AND melee unit, and when run in groups of 6 is statistically guaranteed to kill an unprotected Hero-level character at long range.  Multiple volleys make short work of even level 4 wizards.  I cannot count the number of games that have swung on me killing a BSB or a wizard, not only on a points-for-points basic, but also because it is impossible to quantify what the sudden loss of a particular ability has on an army as a whole.

If you're looking for statistics, we can oblige you.  If you're looking for hard and definitive "This way is best" answers, you're not going to get them because they simply don't exist.

i definately don't think there is a "best"....just looking for real feedback on real units, since i haven't run a bunch of different combinations yet.

Just gathering ideas and going to run them all over the next few games and see what fits my playstyle.  Even if there was a "best" setup, it may not be best for me.

I've been testing a 3 maneaters army for several games (I know, I keep meaning to write up a battle report!  )  and have found outstanding synergy between a unit with Scout+Stubborn and a unit with Vanguard+Swiftstrider.  Put in a position to support each other, an enemy general basically has to accept that if he doesn't slaughter the unit, he's going to get flank charged by a unit of 6 maneaters.

Sniper+Poison-eaters are highly recommended if you're not running a (or only running 1) unit of leadbelchers to clear chaff.  Of course, I almost never charge before third turn (although the maneater army is changing that )

For the record, the army is 6 Scout+Stubborn MEs (3 AHW), 6 Poison+Sniper+BoC MEs, and 7 Vanguard+Swiftstride MEs (4 AHW), plus core and characters.

I've been testing a 3 maneaters army for several games (I know, I keep meaning to write up a battle report!  )  and have found outstanding synergy between a unit with Scout+Stubborn and a unit with Vanguard+Swiftstrider.  Put in a position to support each other, an enemy general basically has to accept that if he doesn't slaughter the unit, he's going to get flank charged by a unit of 6 maneaters.

Sniper+Poison-eaters are highly recommended if you're not running a (or only running 1) unit of leadbelchers to clear chaff.  Of course, I almost never charge before third turn (although the maneater army is changing that )

For the record, the army is 6 Scout+Stubborn MEs (3 AHW), 6 Poison+Sniper+BoC MEs, and 7 Vanguard+Swiftstride MEs (4 AHW), plus core and characters.

funny you mentioned this, I have written up a list with 2 sets of Maneaters....one with swiftstride/vanguard...one with scout/stubborn.  It's over points though...both sets have to be pretty much naked (just with bellowers) to make it happen though.  Otherwise I'll be 40 points over.

This might be a silly idea...but can I put my lvl 1 butcher in with my swiftstride Maneaters and have him deliver an early hellheart?  at least that lvl 1 would add value..im fairly sure that a character without special rules can't benefit from the rules if he joins a squad with them...am I right on that? it would save me the cost of 1 maneater...

The character would slow down the unit. If he doesn't have swiftstride and he joins the unit, the unit will be unable to benefit from swiftstride.

The character would slow down the unit. If he doesn't have swiftstride and he joins the unit, the unit will be unable to benefit from swiftstride.

makes sense.  Would he negate Vanguard?  I imagine he'd nix out scout though..

Does anyone use Swiftstride + Stubborn? Roll into combat asap and keep units occupied?

Does anyone use Swiftstride + Stubborn? Roll into combat asap and keep units occupied?

That's why I use swiftstride and scout.
It puts the pressure on earlier and with 8 you don't lose combat quick (especially as you can choose where to deploy after the rest

sniper+poison+brace is both a potent ranged AND melee unit, and when run in groups of 6 is statistically guaranteed to kill an unprotected Hero-level character at long range.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but the wording is very misleading. A group of 6 will do 2 wounds ON average, which means there is (about) a 50:50 chance to do less. And because you can't kill a character twice, you can only expect to kill 0.5 unprotected heros per turn. (And, by the way, 0.33 unprotected lords or 4++ save heroes).

That being said, I still agree on the matter. The potential danger is high enough that most armies will keep their mages outside of 30" range, which essentially nullifies, e.g., shadow magic. The psychological impact is strong enough even with sniper alone. 

What kind of math are you using?  12 shots giving you a pair of 6s is as close to a guarantee as you can get with dice.  Besides, when you combine this with the Rock-Eye, you can make a pretty good guess about who to shoot, especially if you remember to ask who is using what magic item. 

"Okay, that level 2 had the dispel scroll, so I know it doesn't have the talisman of preservation that was also in the squad, and killing it will deprive my opponent of a second Miasma, so 12 shots into him!"

Using a shadow wizard is a poor example as any mage with half a brain is dropping your BS to crap just to stop you sniping at all.  Keep in mind if you are hitting on a 7+ poison means nothing.

I just did a quick estimate yesterday, but it is also straightforward to do it exactly with combinatorics. The chance to score exactly 2 hits is 29.6%.  [(1/6)^2*(5/6)^10*12!/ 10! 2! ]. However, the question was not how many wounds you do, but whether you kill him. This is achieved for any number of wounds larger or equal than 2, which gives you a 61.9% chance (100%-11.2% for no wound and 26.9% for 1 wound).

So I'm trying to come up with a list with two units of six meaneaters.

One is going to have 6xBrace of Pistols, the other will have 3x additional hand weapons.

Which unit should have scout/stubborn and which should have vanguard/swiftstride?

Thanks!

So I'm trying to come up with a list with two units of six meaneaters.

One is going to have 6xBrace of Pistols, the other will have 3x additional hand weapons.

Which unit should have scout/stubborn and which should have vanguard/swiftstride?

Thanks!

Probably best to have the scout on the one with the pistols so you can put him right where you want them.  The vanguard swiftstride guys should have the Mournhide Banner Probably...the Pistols guys the flaming banner.

FWIW, I tried 8 Maneaters today with braces, poison and sniper.  It was horrible.  The worst setup yet.  Swiftstride + Scout/Vanguard + Mournhide Banner + Xtra Hand weapons in front with Champion having great weapon is by the the best setup yet IMO

Played a guy who used Swiftstride Stubborn and GW on his maneaters.  It was round four and I was undefeated going into that game, so he must have done well with them.  I just threw a unit under the bus to eat the charge and countercharged with my hammer unit (or what passes for one in an all Night Gobbo army) to kill them off.  I think the same unit with pistols might have been much scarier.  I see the value in the concept, but I just don't think the relatively small chance is worth one of the BTDT slots, unless its a secondary maneater unit.

As for my own army, I always run Stubborn + Poison with max pistols in a unit of 6-7, though I occasionally give the standard bearer a GW for armor busting duty.  This is generally always my LD bunker, with a Maw Banner BSB and Tyrant in there, providing support fire on the way in and late game gate crash once everyone is stuck in.  On the rare occasions where I have run a second unit of MEs, its always been 3-4 guys with AHW with Scout and ITP, to act as a distraction unit, but I don't really like the scout thing very much, compared to just having more chaff and line troops.  I think a gorger is better in a similar role, honestly.  Overall, the ME unit has always been my MVP and never let me down, which is not something I can say for MFC or Leadies.

I never really liked maneaters at all, unless you give them scouts. Scouting monstrous infantry is always funny to use, and for the second special rule, I usually take either ItP, Poison or Stubborn, all of which are fairly good in their own respects. A combination of Stubborn and the Gleaming pennant is fairly annoying.

I agree with the OP that anything more than a second hand weapon for the front rank is a bit obsolete unless you run a unit of more than two ranks, in which case a great weapon for the second rank can be considered. Still a tad expensive to pay 11 points per model for what will usually be a +1 to wound, and I find that these points can be spent more wisely.

You could also go completely bananas and take a scouting Maneater horde. These will basically wreck everything in the game except maybe ethereals. This unit will set you back about a thousand points, but is basically a death-star of epic proportions which I will only recommend to hardcore players. Backed up by dual Ironblasters, a Heavens Slaughtermaster (who can prevent the horde from getting flanked or redirected through clever comet impact point placement) and basically whichever core you fancy, you will have an army your run off the mill all comers list of almost any race will have an extremely hard time dealing with.

What kind of math are you using?  12 shots giving you a pair of 6s is as close to a guarantee as you can get with dice. 

The kind of math is called binomial theorem.

"Average hits/wounds" can often be misleading. As is the exact probability of getting the average. While Mattino is correct that the odds of rolling exactly 2 poisons is only 29.6%, that's not what you're really looking for.

When sniping a 2-wound character what we need is the probability of two or more 6's on the initial roll. The odds of that are 61.9%.

I wouldn't say 62% is a "guarantee" but it's a lot better than 30%. 

About the GW:
In current warhammer 1+ armour saves rule.
Then it is not so bad, to shake 4 points off of that.

You could take care of the ethereals once with the dragon hide banner (granted you don't need it for anything else really) and heavens.

It's still on my list to do it sometimes, though

I personally like to put my Tyrant in a unit of 7-8.  I started using 5 but it just died too easily.

I also like to run them WYSIWYG so I've got my four gw in the back, all my xhw in the front, standard of dicipline, ha, and for my special rules I give them stubborn and ItP.

It's a great deathstar that can take on almost anything be it heavy troops, horde, or monsters.  I also try to keep them central to provide that knock down blow and leadership bubble.

Been playing against a lot of knight horde, so I run:

GW x8 (I like to run 4-6 wide)
Poison, stubborn, HA, and Magic Banner (Discipline, or Dragonhide)

And I run about 14 in this unit, and it becomes the character bunker.

This build eats 1+ armor.