New CSM Codex

Well it was all a bad dream!! Gav Thorpe's CSM codex didn't exist after all it was all a dream and bobby Eweing just came out the shower to boot....

What can I say about the new CSM codex, apart from Phwwwwoooaaarrr!!!!!    It is a thing of beauty (well if anything form the Eye of Terror can be called that) the fluff is all good, the terrible Icons thing has gone and there are marks a plenty!!! no character is terribly over powered, the chaos psychic powers are not bad at all, Typhus has been brought down a peg or three, but then he needed it ( and I play Deathguard!)

Dark apostles are a welcome addition, as are the warpsmiths, and both fit in perfectly, indeed I cannot understand why they've not been included before!
Yes they have Zoids, but even the new Daemon Engines are chuffing lovely!

Spawn I think are now a must have, and a clear winner in the upgrade stakes, they're now fast attack amongst other things......

there's bonus tables, and tonnes more, it finally looks like G.W have done something right and top marks to Phil Kelly!!

All in all, as the first new codex, it's one hell of a great start, I can't wait to see what the others will be like now!!

Yeah, other than the fact I had to sell a kidney to afford it the book is very nice and tickled my Chaos itch once more. Lots of options for you to build an army your way. 40k looks to have taken a real boost and if the other codices match this one the game will be in a very good place I think.

Phil Kelly USUALLY does a good job. the problem is the minis. No one likes em. the dragon looks like someone cut it in half, the zoids are unpopular and the combat obliterator...things look horrid.

I've already got my Death guard from waaaaaaaaaayyyyy back so I'm only going to get some cultists and maybe some chosen you're right though, a lot of the models do look, well not very nice.  

Tanksie, glad you called em Zoids too!!! either that or Dinobots....

I've already got my Death guard from waaaaaaaaaayyyyy back so I'm only going to get some cultists and maybe some chosen you're right though, a lot of the models do look, well not very nice.  

Tanksie, glad you called em Zoids too!!! either that or Dinobots....

Zoids definitely they look more well chaosy then Dino bots. 

I like the book a lot. The new boon table is amazing!

Phil Kelly USUALLY does a good job. the problem is the minis. No one likes em. the dragon looks like someone cut it in half, the zoids are unpopular and the combat obliterator...things look horrid.

I agree on the mutilators. their heads look like gumdrops. The heldrake looks too flat and it should have a longer tail. The daemon engines I think are cool looking, but that's just my opinion. But the new raptors/warp talons (I Really want warp talons) look stellar.
The rules are pretty good, But the maulerfiend is overpriced. It can put out 4 attacks plus one or two I1 melta attacks, So it kills vehicles and buildings really well but that's about it. The forgefiend is nuts. Strength 8 plasma cannons? Gee, could that be made to take on paladins?
And IMHO the best part of the fluff is that abbadon's fluff now makes him look genuinely competent as apposed to a guy who couldn't lead a crusade through wet toilet paper.

This book has rekindled my Chaos leanings. It's an army in both systems that has always been one I've enjoyed, I've played CSM on and off since 2nd ed 40k and am thinking that I might have to return to them for both systems and just give in to my inner black-hearted megalomaniac.

Very pleased with the codex (hard cover, yay!), and the Heldrake isnt all that bad up close.

Not a Chaos player myself, but after having a good read through it yesterday definatly thinking of starting Eperor's Childeren or Iron Warriors somewhere along the way.

728, IIRC there are dozens of copies floating around bearing that particular number.

GWs pulling your leg with the limited edition

CSM's were my first love, and unfortunately for the rest of my armies, that love has been rekindled with the new book.

I'm very thrilled about the bikers. I love both the mark of Nurge (T6) and Slaanesh (I5 and options for FnP) on them. And they're too cheap not to take
And a Nurgle lord on a bike with the Black Mace will reap quite the tally for Epidemius 

This month I bought a battleforce and two extra bikers. T5 bikes are amazingly good in this edition.

Berzerker's are still fairly worthless though.  I did a point-for-point comparision, and both Noise marines and Plague marines pump out more damage and take a hit better than both equal points AND equal model-count units of 'zerkers, REGARDLESS of making or receiving a charge.

I'm helping my buddy resurrect his old Emperor's Children army, and he's looking at including Huron in there.  On a 3+ he'll get to infiltrate both 20-man noise marine squads, complete with a full-kit sorcerer... 51 shots that ignore cover, and 2 S8 blasts that ignore cover...

Hope you have vehicles, cuz your infantry's f***ed.

Indeed, Plague Marines just make Bezerkers look like panzies.

the really interesting thing was that I5, 3+, FNP had almost the exact same results in terms of survivability as T5, 3+, FNP.

The funniest matchup was a 20-marine squad with Fabius Bile's bonus.  For 60% of the point value, you got a squad that absolutely out-performed 'Zerkers in every way.

That I5 is really helpful striking first, which is probably what is making it similar survivability.

Although if you get GKs into the mix the plague marine's T5 will make him win out in the end.

I've got a unit of Noise Marines in my Slaaneshi themed list (only unit without the mark is the termies because +1 init and power fists..... yeah!) and kitting them out with the proper weapons looks devastating. Line them up to a unit and let rip and then your opponent (if it's not MEQ) suddenly soils his trousers when they don't get a cover save.

A full volley of sonic blaster fire still kills 6 marines after armor saves...  8 if they get hit with that power that increases the blasters strength.

I finished assembling them (with the Sonic Blaster weapon kit GW are selling now) and the squad looks bad ass. Looking forward to seeing what they can do on the table.

I love the new book. If I didn't already have too many armies I'd be starting  Typhus lead plague zombie heavy list.

Though, for some reason both Chaos players in my group are avoiding the new shiny things. I can't understand why, the Heldrake seems amazing.

The helldrake's problem is that it has only a single gun, and it's best weapon choice (the bale flamer) is great at doing things that the rest of the army is already pretty good at.  It's fairly expensive and not that good at killing other flyers, and a single weapon destroyed neuters it.

It needs either a.) more guns, or b.) needed to be a walker/flyer.  Vector striking really isn't that hot, but if it had the ability to drop into hover and charge a squad to tie it up/slaughter it.  I mean, come on!  A charging dragon!

Looks good enough to me. That baleflamer can net you back the points for the flier in one shot. It's expensive but it's actually the toughest flier on the market. If you can do it, the vector strike is as good as a hydra flakk gun against enemy fliers.

I dunno man, a flyer that can fly on, basically delete a unit of MEQ and is very hard to kill seems like a decent investment to me.

It can fly on, vector strike a transport, probably crippling it, end it's movement near a bunkered unit, then use the baleflamer and daemonforge to basically delete a unit of MEQ from the board. It gets a jink, daemon save and can regen hull points. Even if its weapon is destroyed, a d3+1 str7 autohits a turn can be pretty painful if allocated to the right targets.

I didn't say it was worthless, just that it does things that other units do just as well.

In my experience, vector strikes really aren't that impressive, ESPECIALLY for a flyer.  A FMC can make the most out of them since it has no maneuvering restrictions aside from the distance it has to move to be considered swooping.  With the Drake only able to turn 90 degrees, it'll be that much harder to hit another flyer.  Weak transports?  Sure, no problem, but that's something else that alot of other things in the Chaos codex do well too.

Also, vector strikes are S7, AP- (I'd capitalize AP- if it wasn't already...maybe AP-... eh).  Sure, this isn't a -1 on the vehicle table anymore, but it means that everything that has a save gets a save against it.  And against AV12 (ie, the nastier fliers out there) it's still less than stellar.

Don't get me wrong, the Hell Drake can have a place in your army, and with a good chance of paying for itself.  But I certainly wouldn't consider it a must take.

Vector Strikes are AP3 dude. P43

Hi all,

I am having trouble working out how many attacks a Khorne Berzerker should have! It says 1 on the profile, but he comes with a pistol and hand weapon that should then convert that to 2 attacks? With the rage rule each one then gets an extra 2 attacks on the charge?

Have I missed something? Also, what is the point in buying a chain axe for them as it doesn't give a strength buff?
 
Cheers all!

He gets 1 attack, plus another 1 for the second CCW. Rage/counter attack effectively gives him 1 extra attack in the first round of combat. (Just +1 total, not +1 per attack or anything like that).

A charging bezerker would get 4 total. 1 + 1 (XCCW) +1 (charging) + 1 (rage).

Many thanks Sir! 

A chainaxe is AP4 instead of AP- in melee.

And IIRC it does give a Str buff but I could be wrong.

Sorry Grey, but you're wrong on part of that.

A Berzerker has 1 base attack, and 1 additional attack from the extra close combat weapon (pistol and chain sword/axe)

If a berzerker chargES, the Rage rule gives him an additional 2 attacks, for a total of 4.

If the berzerker IS charged, then he takes a leadership test, and if passed, gets an additional attack from the Counter-Attack rule, for a total of 3.

And until they release a real FAQ, the chain-axe doesn't increase strength and doesn't make you initiative 1.

I assume that was aimed at my comments, not Grey's?

I did say effectively an extra attack in the first round (although you're right, counter attack does require a Ld test). The Ld-test aside, Bezerkers get +1 attack in the first round of combat from one rule or the other. There are a few scenarios where the exact wording is important (defensive grenades, etc) but they're pretty few and far between.

Chainaxes don't have a Strength boost and it is extremely unlikely to be changed in errata. They've their own profile and the profile of power/force axes is irrelevant. Although Bezerkers can get a strength boost through their Icon when charging.

I thought it a bit of a shame that Chainswords aren't AP5. It would have been a perfect opportunity to differentiate between chainswords and mere swords. But it's cool Chain-axes do something and not the stupid rule they had in 3rd ed.

whoops, you're right about the comment being directed at you, but wrong on Rage.

Rage gives +2 attacks on the charge, not +1.

Defensive grenades got much clearer, and now only negate any extra attacks gained from charging, but not bonuses abilities, like a chaplain's reroll to hit or the strength bonus from Furious Assault.

whoops, you're right about the comment being directed at you, but wrong on Rage.

Rage gives +2 attacks on the charge, not +1.

Did you read my post? I know what Rage does. I'm not wrong, Rage is still effectively an extra attack on top of the usual +1 when charging. Combined with Counter-Attack, Bezerkers lost the 2A basic they had last edition but gained in effect +1A in the first round of combat whether charging or not on top of other bonuses.

Ahhh.  I did read your post, I mistook it for meaning they get a +1 for charging or +1 for counter attack.  My bad 

Fair enough. I thought you were nit-picking to the nth degree there!