how to beat a DE death magic pendant list?

I have an oppo that takes a Dark elf list to tourneys.
 
list is something like in 2200 points
 
general on a pegasus, 1+ armour save and pendant, S5 weapon
 
level 4 caster with +1 spell, no saves
 
bsb with what i forget
 
20 executioners, FC
 25 spearmen FC
 5 cav with spears
 hydra
 2x20 xbows
 3 scouts with BS5 xbows
 

my list:
 SM, armour o destiny, OTS, GW
 bruiser, bsb, hvy armour, ench shield, 4+ talisman, GW
 FB, hell heart
 
6 bulls, muso, std
 6 IG, muso, std, +1 ld banner
 
4 maneaters, sniper, posion, banner of flame, hvy armour
 4 mournfang, hvy armour, fists, dragonhide banner, muso, std
 sabrecat
 
ironblaster
 
the game goes a little like this:
 he casts -1 T on an ogre unit and shoots it with massed xbows. when i get closer he casts Psun till i am dead. general charges a unit and locks it in combat and never dies. what ever units i engage die.

i try and get the HH fire belly as close as possible to the caster for the best chance of a miscast. the mannies have never rolled enough to wound the caster but that may just be bad luck.
 
maybe i need to give the SM a scroll for protection. death magic frustrates the hell out of me. low I and low ld units are custom made for death magic. its getting to a point now where if we have a game organised i am going to say sure we can play but not if you have death magic.

can anyone provide advice on how to counter this army? as i play in tourneys i cant just avoid DE death magic pendant lists.

You have to take at least 5 shades in a unit.  Are they cold one knights or dark riders?

What tends to kill my unkillable dread lord is massed shooting.  Bonecrusher is a nice spell as well.  Since it doesn't allow armor saves and is strength 2.

Honestly thats not a very tough list hes hitting you with.  It can get much much worse.

edit:  totally forgot about soul blight.

Soulblight lowers Str and Toughness.

Bonecrusher is the best spell vs the unkillable dreadlord.

Looking at your list, I only see 2018 pts with what is listed... and that core is only 483 out of the required 550.  So maybe there's more to it than what you wrote?

For my suggestions:

IMO, a SM (General, Level 4 Maw, Fencer's Blade, Dispel Scroll, Greedy Fist) is a much better build.  The 4+ ward is often wasted on a Maw caster due to Trollguts, while the WS10 on 5 Str 5 attacks isn't. 

I would also suggest a build for the BSB of Bruiser (BSB, HA, IF, Dragonhelm, Crown of Command, Luckstone).  The 2+ ward vs fire can come in very handy.  Your current BSB loses ALL benefit of the enchanted shield in CC because of the GW (reverting him back to a 5+ armor save).  My build retains a 3+, 6++ with one reroll on the armor.'

Bump the Firebelly to be a level 2.  That gives you a 44% chance of getting the spell you want (whether its flaming sword for killing hydras, or flame cage for killing those big blocks of elves).  And give him an extra hand weapon.

For core, have you considered going bigger on the IG (and adding a champion and lookout gnoblar)?  7x IG (full command, lookout gnoblar) with your General and BSB seems about right.  During combat, make way with your characters and all attacks will have to allocate between the 2 characters and champion, preventing your opponent from wounding the RnF completely.

Also, drop the standard from the 6 ogre block.  They exist to add combat rez through flank charges... and you should already have a standard involved in the combat from the main block when they charge in.

I think 5x Leadbelchers would do much better than the maneaters.  The dreadlord gets no LoS roll, so hit him with 5d6 Str 4 armor piercing shots and see how many he saves.  They are a good unit to give Flaming Sword too (both for the dreadlord and vs the hydra).  Leadbelchers are also great for shooting at xbowmen units (having the 1st shot advantage thanks to movement +24 inch range and no penalties for move+shoot).  This is a great place to put your firebelly as well, since leadies tend to move up before shooting.  Make sure to take a bellower so you can swift reform.

One sabre is good.  Two is better.  Just keep an eye on your 6" spacing to prevent panic tests. 

With all the changes above, there are 75 pts left.  Exactly enough for a unit of 20 gnoblars with traps and a champion (just in case you get the watchtower scenario).  If you do get the watchtower, remember to challenge with the champion (they are steadfast in the building, so it helps keep your unit alive that one extra turn).

If changing up your list doesn't interest you, then accept that your specific list has some very bad match ups against his list.

The changes I suggest give you good match ups against him while still being a strong all-comers list.

When playing him, remember that the weakness of death spells is their very short range.  Sit back a turn or two and shoot with your IB.  You should be able to stay out of range of his xbows for that long.  When you go, send everything at once.

-Snark

i have tried the leadie approach but they really didnt do much. even 5d6 shots is still on average 17.5 (say 18) shots. usually at long range so 1/3 hit. 6 hits = 4 wounds = 3+ armour save = 1 failed and then a 50/50 to save that with the pendant.

i will need to keep the std on the bulls as the tourney has B&G for 2 missions. i need all the stds i can get.

i will use most of the stuff you have said.

Slaughtermaster - fencers blades, glittering scales, greedy fist (Maw)  385

Bruiser(BSB) - Heavy armor, Ironfist, dragon helm, crown of command 188
Firebelly- lvl2 great weapon, dispel scroll, ironcurse icon 194

18 Bulls fc- 606

9 Ironguts Banner, banner of Flame- 407

4 Mournfang dhide banner, standard and musician-350

3 (individual) sabre tusks 63

2193


Put characters with the bulls. Keep tusks 6" away from stuff and get in the way with them. Your bulls will scare the Sh*t out of him and your mournfang can sweep up points while he tries to deal with that many wounds, but can't. Dipel scroll is must in this match up and i find overall more reliable than hellheart(yeah i said it). Go for his mage first  , I mean with fangs and bull block.

Not a list i would suggest all the time but just for those times that the little skinny folk need a good kickin.

Death/ greedy fist.
makes the sorceress level 0 and the lord has no saves at all against that.

dropped the FB for a butcher and now have a death greedo SM. i am toying with a rune maw banner. any good? does mean no magic protection for the BSB

Bonecruncher all the way.

Unkillable dreadlords are always by themselves, easy targets.

The average of 7 hits will cause around 2.3333 wounds. Which will equal about 2 wounds on average.

In the event that it wasn't a dreadlord and only the hero level character they are probably dead.



As for Death Magic, just be careful about your distances. Purple Sun is realitivly short ranged and the boosted casting value is quite high.

And make sure you are playing Vortex's correctly. Vortexs start in btb with their casters front arc and go outward from there. They don't start wherever the caster picks.

One of the most vicious things against DE is the Thundertusk.  Bulls already wound on a 3, so the ironguts are a waste.  Keep your main units in range of a thundertusks ASL (I run a small unit of trappers in front of the thundertusk to protect it from charges) and you'll absolutely slaughter any DE infantry, even without buffs.

As for dealing with his magic and his lord, go with the Death/Greedy Fist combo.  Target the wizards first.

Use sabertusks to prevent shades from scouting behind you.

Leadbelchers are amazing for shredding his crossbow lines, and Ironblasters are great for dealing with characters on Pegasi.

DE are one of our best matchups, IMO, and his list is one of the weaker ones I've seen.

I think the key is to either take out the Dreadlord or lock him up. Bonecrusher is great for this, unless you are running lore of Death yourself.

Worst come to be either bait him to charge, or try and get the charge yourself with your main bus and challenge him with your Slaughtermaster, with this build "Slaughtermaster - fencers blades, glittering scales, greedy fist (Maw)  385" that Tryptic posted, you should not die.

It's hard to stand the shooting from a DE list, but if the rest of your army can mop up whats left, you are denying a hell of a lot of point in the Dreadlord combat. He's not killing you, you're not killing him. You're safe from shooting and magic missiles/direct damage spells. (except the purple sun )

Runemaw makes all but purple sun useless. HH and scroll when you are close. Not much you can do against it if its irresistible but you wont get hexed.

As stated, bonecrusher is great against the Dreadlord.

Rune maw banner is a good bet against DE's. It's redirects all those nasty debuffs shadow lore has. If you run a 3 wide bus he sits safely in the second row.