Beating Teclis(High Elf)

I played against a Teclis army with an army list posted by Adam on "the dice abide" website.  He said he had never lost with his army list.  I tried it against Teclis and lost.  Can anyone suggest ways to help?  The list was  Slaughtermaster(Armour of Silvered steel,  channelling staff, Greedy fist, Lore of Death),  Bruiser(BSB, Deathcheater,  Rune Maw Banner,  Butcher(Lore of Great Maw, Hellheart),  15x Ironguts( full command, standard of Discipline,  look-out Gnobler?) 4 x Mournfang(full command, Dragonhide Banner) 2x Sabretusks,  2x Ironblaster,  Stonehorn

Teclis is T2 with no save.  Leadies, snipers, run a sabretusk or any old unit of ogres into his bunker will take him out. Or you can always try deathfisting him, but teclis owns the magic phase so that's not a probably not going to work so well. Anyway you can get some damage on him he will die pretty quickly though.

Well, did the originator of this list run it against the Teclis list you faced?

I agree with theviking, mainly, a large unit of poison-sniping Maneaters will nomnom him to oblivion. You won't win the magic phase while he lives, but I wouldn't be surprised if, when he goes, his magic phase goes with him If you know that the list focuses on hiding Teclis, you could also perhaps attempt a sniper-scout maneater build, but I kinda like the bonus of the poison, and if he outdeploys them, you basically end up with just maneaters with only sniper, which is a loss of the BTDT rule, no good IMO!

Sniping maneaters won't work against teclis. Your opponent will hide him behind units or have his unit inside cover so your maneaters will not get a chance to touch him. And then teclis will explode them.

Your opponent would have to be a moron for that unit to work.   

If your opponent plays Teclis his list is centered around Teclis. So the way to win is to focus all your efforts on killing Teclis (before he destroys your army).

Hellheart is always fun,

"what he ignores his first miscast ? He didn't miscast he just has to roll on the table muahahar.

death fist might not get him but it's worth a try and would use his dice so you can fireball and buff your units so they can charge in and club them and eat their bones.

Runemaw, and kill everything while he fails to magic you.

Sniper Maneaters are a good one. Scout is a good choice, means you get to see where Teclis goes before you set up to snipe him. No less than six, probably more like eight. Death snipes can also work, BUT Teclis can be immune if the banner of the world dragon is in the unit. So if you can't draw a bead on Tec, snipe the BSB instead. Or just gun for close combat with Teclis with the maneaters. If you can distract Tec long enough for your main line to get in unscathed...

Two ironblasters. Just keep pummelling Tec. Sooner or later he'll fail look out sir.

Rune Maw can at least protect against dwellers or pit. Best obviOusly on a large unit like a horde.

Multiple threats. Teclis can usually only reliably get one spell through a turn, maybe two. That typically means only one unit can be buffed or debuffed. He's going to try and arrange things so you have to fight the unit with mindrazor. If you can hit his lines in multiple places Teclis will be hard pressed to help everyone. This means you need to kill the chaff particularly the eagles.

Obviously some of this is contradictory, there's more than one way to skin Teclis.

I've only faced him once and I killed him first turn with Sniping Poison Maneaters.  I've seen massed shooting and scout charges take him out.

If you can get his unit into melee you can easily kill Teclis, unless he has 2 other heroes in there. Just allocate some attacks his direction.

Remember that Teclis's IF ability doesn't automatically work. He still must meet the casting value of the spell he's casting(unless its a double 6)

So if he's casting Purple sun(boosted) and rolls two 3s, a 6, and a 4, he fails to cast the spell. its just Irrisistable if it meets the value.

Remember that Teclis's IF ability doesn't automatically work. He still must meet the casting value of the spell he's casting(unless its a double 6)

So if he's casting Purple sun(boosted) and rolls two 3s, a 6, and a 4, he fails to cast the spell. its just Irrisistable if it meets the value.

That's a ruling I've always been unclear on. Nowhere in the HE Army Book or FAQ does it mention that he has to meet the casting values. I've yet to bust out my own Teclis because people keep telling me this is the case but when I ask for solid proof they can never offer me any. I've not bothered using him purely because I want to save myself the bother of a heated debate/argument. Can anybody point me in the direction of an official GW update/FAQ that proves this ruling?

High Loremaster:

blah blah blah "any spell cast by Teclis will be cast with Irresistible Force on any successful casting roll which includes a double."

I think it's in the FAQ

Seems pretty clear to me. It has to be a successful casting so either reaching the casting value or getting a double six!

Actually, I'm pretty sure that you have to meet the casting value regardless of double-6s, on any wizard.  Been a little while since I completely reread the FAQ, and I don't have the BRB with me, but I'll check that later.

It would probably be a better game if that were true.

It definately works that way. Both Teclis and Book of Hoeth got amendmets after 8th edition.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1610147a_FAQ_HighElves_V1_4.pdf

... Although the line "on any successful casting roll" always was there. 

Oh right, I guess it was only the "except a miscast" that was fixed.

It's "any sucessful casting roll which includes any doubles, except a miscast"

Aaah right that does actually make a lot more sense now somebody has clearly shown which part of the ruling specifies the casting values need to be met. So effectively Teclis must meet the spells casting value for any spell cast including spells where doubles are included with the standard exception of a double 6 spell which would be the usual IF + Miscast?

Is that basically how it's supposed to be interpreted?

Yes, that's right. If your casting a spell that has a casting value of 10 and 3 dice it and get 2, 2, 5 for example the spell is cast (2+2+5+4=13) and the double twos make it IF.

Double 6's would be IF, spell would be cast irrelevant of value needed and he'd take a miscast, which he might be able to ignore depending on his other piece of wargear.

I don't know what was intended. Nobody knows. If the guy knew what he was writing he wouldn't have written it.

Chances are he had a crazy night out filled with booze and drugs, woke up in Las Vegas next to a dead hooker and a piece of newspaper with those rules written on it.

I don't know what was intended. Nobody knows. If the guy knew what he was writing he wouldn't have written it.

Chances are he had a crazy night out filled with booze and drugs, woke up in Las Vegas next to a dead hooker and a piece of newspaper with those rules written on it.

Hahaha! I'd love to think that's how our army books and codex's came about. Admitedly there have been some shockingly poor written books. Chaos Space Marines most recent book for example.... just terrible. Teclis is a funny one though, there are many here who would see Teclis owned by the Hellheart, go over to Ulthuan.net and they would argue his Warcrown of Saphery allows him to dodge the HH miscast. To be fair they are just as biased towards his crown saving him as we are about him being nerfed by the HH so it's all relative to the army you collect. I happen to collect both which is why I'd like 100% clarification on the matter. He's so broke everybody wants a crack at him 

I'm in favour of the crown not working because the hellheart rarely results in models being taken of the table a unit at a time.

The crown doesn't work because it says "he ignores the first miscast he makes every turn"

The crown is very explicit that Teclis must have created the miscast.

With the Hellheart, Teclis sure as hell didn't make the miscast.

if the crown said "He ignores the first miscast he suffers every turn..." it would be different.

I wouldn't mind Teclis or the Book of Hoeth nearly so much if the High Elves were limited in the lores they could take.  Yes, yes, font of all magical knowledge and all that, but I could definitely see them not persuing certain lines of magical knowledge out of some high-and-mighty moral reasonings.

Well there are no evil lores in the rulebook. They also taught it to the 'lesser' races.

They just need to lose the stupid Book of Hoeth and Teclis needs to be toned down. I want his scrawny T2 A** to get beat with a nerfbat the size of a california redwood.

Crown. One time use only. He may use it to ignore a miscast he suffers.

Staff. It needs to become gain D3 power dice OR gain a bonus to casting.

No more IF on doubles.

I wouldn't even mind his stats as they are now (he is meant to be one of the greatest living mages after all) but a price tag that's appropriate...

Anyway, I think it's safe to say he won't be the cheese when the HE book gets redone.

If he miscast on any IF doubles that meet casting value it would be a nice touch. Let the super-mage have the good... with some bad.

It's just painful when double 5s and 4s meet or beat requirements, and there isn't a chance to dispel nor a miscast for an entire phase.

How about IF on any doubles for his first spell of the phase; after that, he casts as normal.  And yes, the Crown needs to be either one-tme-only, or it can be the first miscast of every phase, but his If on any doubles also causes a miscast.  This way he's allowed his one virtually-guaranteed spell to signify how badass he is, but after that he plays by the same damned rules as everyone else.

Teclis is nasty but not unbeatable. I have a teclis list that is unbeaten at 3000 points, but he has died a few times. You are best to lore of death him. Yes you have the problem with his +5 to dispel BUT if you get lore of death and get an irresistable force he drops like a phat beat. Also they are only T3 guarding him. I would just use a train to knock his unit for 6, hard impact hits with a horde and even when they are striking first they wound on 5s and you still get a save. If you use the dragonhide banner they lose their re rolls to hit and you will find that they will die quite quickly. They are like a fencers foil, they are nimble and quick but if they dont kill you straight away they will be smashed aside in a meat grinder. Also if you reduce their WS to 1 by making them fail their fear (Lore of Death) it makes it far easier too

Az

O'he's not unbeatable.

I've won plenty of games against him. Its killing the bugger that annnoys me and all the insane damage he causes.

And then he has practically unbeatable magic with no drawbacks aside from points(which arn't enough)

you dont need to kill him. death magic and greedy fist and remove his spells/levels. 4 hits and he is just a T2 unit filler. failing that, snipe him out of the unit. S2 needs a 2+ to wound without poison. how many wounds does he have? 8 shots should = at least 1 poison.