I'll show you mine, you show me yours (List Etiquette)

So I'm at this critical point in the game, I pull off a spell, he doesn't have dice to dispel (or he did, but failed his roll, I forget which) . . . and just as I'm about to feel triumphant in enacting the effects of the spell — he says with a flip of his hand, "Oh, well.  Dispel scroll."  And just like that, my game-turning spell goes up in a puff of smoke.

Problem is — there was no way to prove or disprove that he had brought a dispel scroll in his list.  Because he didn't have it written up in any way that I could see it.

When I show up at a game, I always have my list printed up — one copy for me, one copy for my opponent.  And I create it in Quartermaster, so all of the points are added up, the percentages are right there, and if I spent any of my allotted points on magic items they're right there in black and white for anyone to read.

Frankly, from now on, if someone isn't willing to print up their list ahead of time using either Quartermaster or Army Builder and bring me a copy, I'm not setting up my army at the table.

(I have a similar objection, only scarcely quelled, against battling someone whose army is less than half painted.  But that's a gripe for another day.)

What's your position on showing up with a clear army list printed out when you play a game?  Do you expect your opponent to show up with a list?  And do you exchange lists before the battle, or do you keep them (and your magic items) a secret — yet all the while knowing you're going to have to provide the list at the end of the game, and everything better be on there?



(Side note:  Personally, I love having a clear Quartermaster list printed up, just so I have everything I need right in front of me when I'm at the table.  I create the list in Quartermaster and then use Adobe Acrobat to type in all of the extra info, like armor saves, ballistic weapon stats, reminders like "+2S ASL" for my characters carrying Great Weapons, etc.  It makes the game move so much smoother.)

I think it common courtesy (and frankly an obligation to your oponent) to have your list with you. I do not care how it is printed. for all I care it is written on a sheet of toilet paper, but everything should be on it.

I do not like listsharing before the battle (open list) because in my opinion not knowing some things (magic item combo's, assassins, fanatics, etc) is part of the fun of the game and gives opportunity to tactical bluffs and psychology ( no knight unit will ever come near a dummy unit of nightgoblins out of fear of fanatics, whether they have them or not).

You should however allways be able to show your opponent your list to prove that what you do ingame is indeed in your list.

D...

What he did was illegal. You use Dispel Scrolls instead of dispelling normally. So even if he HAD a dispel scroll he could not have used it.

And generally, you need to show your list to your opponent if there is a question. Closed lists are ok for the mystery, but the instant a question comes up its open list.

I generally don't play if you don't have a written list. I don't care if its handwritten just before the game, but it needs to be in writing.

even when playing with my buddies we have lists on computer or written by hand or something at hand.

I don't really mind in friendly games if most units are not written down, but I always insist that an opponent has details of characters (and units like maneaters) written down.

It's a bit snobbish to demand they use army builder (some of us can do basic math) but your opponent should always have his list written to show you at the end of the game.

Even in the most friendliest of games my opponents have a list written out 99.9% of the time. It's just common courtesy.

And a safety when you or the opponent forget things.

How can he even remember what is in his army without a list, and how does he even know what the total point of his army is?

I would never play against someone that has not a written list of his army, and I always make lists with all the points included. The list is not only for my opponent, but also for my own benefit. I keep forgetting what upgrades and magic items my units/characters have

It's a bit snobbish to demand they use army builder (some of us can do basic math) but your opponent should always have his list written to show you at the end of the game.

Yeah, I actually prefer my opponents don't use army builder. I think it encourages lazyness, not to mention there are often bugs in the information.

I especially hate people that use it as a substitute for their army book. I've had an issue come up and had to ask my opponent to get his army book. It was out in the car.

If someone wanted a game against me and I haven't fought against them many times and I didn't yet know if I could trust them, I would have asked them to write a list. They could borrow my writing stuff and everything, and generally, I think the costs of everything is most important here. Fortunately everyone at my club seems to be either very nice or doesn't play Fantasy at all.

Its not an army without an accurate list.  Its just a pile o models.  The player frisco faced who pulled a phantom dispell scroll out when he had already tried to dispell the spell was cheating in my opinion.  I would suggest placing your reserved mountain chimera you forgot to write in your list next time such shenanagins arise.

Feth yeah, Mountain Chimeras are boss.

It depends on who I'm playing. I mostly play against adults who I can trust not to cheat. And if they do cheat me, that's fine... it's just more of a challenge. There have been times when I've shown up to a game and accidentally left my list on my printer at home and have just "winged it."  I mean, I've played my lists so many times that I can generally recall it from memory. I just announce exactly what everything has before the game starts so there's no question.

Often I will tell my opponent what I have, and what I plan on doing with it - and not ask for the same in return. I like the feeling of saying "I am going to use all these sniper spells to draw out your dispel dice, and then I'm going to hit you with soulblight/doom and darkness" and then still manage to do just that. It's a great feeling. 

Hello!, I always play with closed and printed lists. For this reason always put the object magic "eye Rock" in my lists. The more knowledge of the army rival have better player you will be against him, why many players try to hide their lists. But the armies book information is published and it should not be obscured.
Lists we do not teach until the end of the game.
To all my friends and opponents who want to, I pass the book of kingdoms ogres in pdf.

Always play with written army lists. It's just better and there is no option for the opponent, on both sides, to cheat or have "add-ons". Its just common courtesy.

This is actually a really interesting question, I'd not really thought much about it up until now.

Personally I am by nature a very trusting person, this has come back to bit me in the arse (not necessarily gaming but IRL as well), therefore I have never thought to ask my opponent to see there list.  I regularly play the same 3/4 people and I could not envisage that they would ever cheat so wouldn't even think of asking them for a list (though 90% of the time I'm sure they have a list all the time).

When playing new people I have never previously asked to see a list (I do not play tournaments I hasten to add), if there is an issue I will always give them the benefit of the doubt and just take it as a mental note to be cautious of that person next time (one guy recently tried to claim 4+ ward on a grey seer & a plague priest, he had no list written down).

I think this is how I'll continue - I will as ever though ensure that I have a nice looking list on me for all my games, which is never an issue as I have 20+ possible lists at any one time in my army case

I always bring a list along with me. In fact, I always have a couple of spares, not just for variation and choice but also because I never clear out my bag (), so if I ever forget anything I can have another list ready.

But yes, I do like my opponents to bring along a list, unless there's a new guy who just needs to be taught with a regiment and a hero or two. I don't mind whether it's made on Army Builder (my preferred way) or just written down on paper (the preferred way of most other people at my club). I don't ask to see lists afterwards though, just as long as they bought theirs along I'm fine with it. Out of courtesy though I will print off multiple copies of my list for tournaments and give a copy to each of my opponents after the game.

But this does remind me of a time a few years back in 7th edition when my dad was about to play this kid of about 12 at our first club, but he very rarely turned up with a list or army book (he always "forgot") and always used the club's Dwarf miniatures. On this particular occasion he drew out an obscene amount of warmachines and huge blocks of troops. Now dad couldn't believe this and asked to see the kid's list. The kid had forgotten again. So he and a friend asked the boy to tell them exactly what he had in the list, and then added everything up with a spare army book in front of them. It turned out that the kid had 400pts of extra troops and had 2 extra bolt throwers! The boy learned a lesson after that.