Are Giants useless?

Well, I was thinking, why bother bring a Giant? I mean, his attacks are random and pretty useless, he has no save whatsoever and can fall over. Plus, he has no apparent role, Psychology? Tarpit? He seems to be a huge points sink, I mean 200 hundred points for some lazy oaf who could stuff a guy in a BAG, fall over, take cannons and ballistae to the face and suck at taking down other monstours.
So let me ask you, have you ever ran a Giant? Was he worth his points, or did he do anything?
Me? I took one to a 5000 Storm Of Magic, and he died first turn to a macro Fireball. Took him in a friendly game, killed one guy and fell over. Then he was masacred in combat. And I had to take one in a siege (as it was a demo kind of with Orcs and Gobbos) and took a cannon to the face before the game started and lost. By the way, I was against Empire before their 8th ed and it was a very non-cheesey list.
And if their is a strategy for him, what is it? Waste time and points?
Or maybe he should get buffed, or have his points reduced. I mean, 66% of his attacks only hit once. And if he was to be buffed, what way should they go around it? Heres mine:
Giant 205 points
Ws  Bs  S  T  A  W  I  Ld  M
3      3   6  6  *   5  2   7   6
Wargear: Giant Armour: Grants a 4+ armour save.
Huge club: The normal weapon that Giants prefer. If taken, change attacks to 4. Clubs grant the Giant Killing Blow.
Massive crossbow: An unusual (but not uncommon) weapon for a Giant. Infact, it's arrows are trees with pointy bits at the end.
Rg  Str.    Rules
36"  6      Bolt thrower, may fire even if he moves.
Special Rules: Large Target, Terror, Thunderstomp
Special Attacks: If a Crossbow is taken or no weapon at all is taken, then you must use these attacks in combat.
Man sized creatures:
1-2: Stompy Stomp!: The Giant pulls off a Thunderstomp on his foes. He does d6 attacks like normal. However, at the end he must test to fall over.
3-4: BODY SLAM!: The Giant performs a body slam on the opponent. Place the Fallen Giant template over the unit in combat. It does not scatter. Anyone under suffers a Strenght 8 hit. (No mistake) The Giant then suffers d3 automatic wounds and is considdered knocjed down. The Giant is treated as winning combat by 2.
5-6: Aaargh! UGHHHAAAA!: The giant goes into a fit of rage, taking down those pesky humans. The Giant inflicts 3d3 plus 2 hits on the unit. The unit hit cannot attack (if they did not attack) or cannot attack in the next phase. The unit counts as being disrupted and is still suffers from Thunderstomps as normal.
Big Ones (Monstrous Infantry up)
1-2: Stompy Stomp!: The Giant hits the unit d6 times with it's current strenght. He also gets to perform a Thunderstomp on the unit.
3-4: Earthquake!: The unit hit is now suscepticle to Tremor. Each phase (including this one!) that Earthquake is active, the unit suffer a single hit for every wound in the unit (Like 3 Ogres would take 9 hits). The Strenght is equvilant to the model's toughness. For each phase, the Giant must roll a dice. 1-3 Tremor ends. 4+ Tremor continues.
5: Om! Nom! Nom!: Remove one monstrous infantry/cavalry model from the unit. He is considdered dead. Take him from the back.
6: CRUSH! The Giant has 1 attack. If it hits, it becomes S10 with multiple wounds (d6). If it misses then the giant falls on the target, causing hits equal to those under the template with the strenght equalt to the giant's current Strenght. The Giant then takes d3 wounds and for one phase, Tremor is active.
Options:
May take a Huge Club....+20 points.
May take a Crossbow.... +30 points.
May take a shield..... +10 points.
I would like that one.

I run giants occasionally. Because they're fun.

They arn't a bad unit per say. its just that the Ogre list can field more competitive things in the Rare slot.


That said, they are really good at a few things.

1) Killing enemy monsters. Giants have really good inititive compared to other monsters and their attacks have a fairly good chance of gibbing one royally.

Of the 3 results, lets look at their effects.

On a D6 roll,

1: Yell and Bawl. Enemy loses by 2. On a non-stubborn enemy monster, this can hurt pretty bad. The giant doesn't get hurt if the enemy hasn't gone yet either. With a chance of the enemy running away and him running them down.

2-4: Thump with Club. 2D6 WOUNDS. Thats right, straight wounds with no armor saves allowed. This result will just murder any monster it touches, Steamtanks especially.

5-6 'Eadbutt. 1 wound with no armor saves allowed. Not bad, but the victim also loses his attacks if he hasn't already gone(and if he has he loses the next rounds attacks) Like Yell and Bawl, this eliminates the threat against the Giant(assuming a lower inititive then the Giant) 

So against a monster with lower inititive then himself, the Giant has a 16% chance of autowinning combat by 2, a 33% chance of doing an automatic wound and winning combat by 1, and a 50% chance of doing an average of 7 wounds with no armor saves allowed. Most monsters will get creamed by a Giant.


The second use for a Giant is a psycological one.

2) Psycology. Giants, regardless of being ineffective, are dangerous. Noone sees a Giant accross the table from them and says "O'look, a Giant. useless trash, I'll just ignore it and focus on the other stuff"

No, they say "A Giant! I'll have to kill it before it reaches me. At least its easy to do."

Giants are a threat that cannot be ignored. The random attack chart is actually pretty nasty to those on the recieving end. They are easy to kill(relative to other monsters), but they are still a massive threat to everything.

This can be used to your advantage. Giants are still T6 with 6 wounds. They take some effort to kill.Which you can use to draw fire away from your Ogres. I'd rather lose a 200 point giant then allow my main combat block to get damaged on the way to the enemy. And guess what? The enemy will always shoot the Giant, because it is an obvious, and very real, threat. On the off chance they do ignore the Giant, well, they just ignored a frakkin Giant! Let them feel his large sized wrath.

And Giants are relativly cheap as far as monsters go so you can take a couple in your game very easily, alongside Ironblasters even. You can easily field a Giant along with 2 Ironblasters in a 2500 point game.

I can attest to the threat a Giant can pose a Steam Tank in the Empire army.  Other than a few particularly grim spells, there's nothing else that can obliterate a Steam Tank in one bout.   

If I'm playing Empire and someone fields a Giant, I'm either deploying my STank (or moving it) to another part of the battlefield, or I'm directing my cannon at the lumbering hulk (and maybe my Helblaster too) until it's smoked. 

And sure enough — that means the enemy's main block of Ogres can advance largely unimpeded.   

I'm always happier if the opponent leaves his Giants at home.

If they were 150 points. You would see them all over.

Another use for them is to control a far off board edge for a while. They are one of the few units that do not need the LD of the general in our army, since they have an LD of 10 themselves.

I now and then use one on the flank, far away to keep enemy flankers busy for some turns (knights and stuff). Since our Giant is not immune to psychology he may choose to flee when charged so I move him up and stay some 13-14 inch away from the enemy knights. since he does not want a giant in his flank he has almost no other choice but to charge him. I then flee and get away, making his knights only move d6 inch. In my turn I rally the giant (LD10) and turn him around. This can really keep a dangerous unit out of the main battle for a lot of turns.

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Actually, I'm surprised you don't see more chaos giants.  Granted, the war shrine is definitely more useful, but a Chaos Giant with a mark of Slannesh is potentially devastating, all for the simple reason that the Slanneshy giant will have Always Strikes First.  Yell and Bawl before you've even hit it?  Yuck.  Jump Up and Down before you swing?  Ouch.  Thump with Club?  There goes... ughh.... Just about very other monster/chariot/big thing.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you Nihmwit......


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I love the idea of a giant in my army but it's unpredictability and points cost just put it too far into the "no go" zone for me. I'd probably pick one up and use it for silly fun games between friends but as far as competition goes I'd leave his chunky backside in the case. Gimme a Stonehorn any day of the week!

Giants are basically a redundant unit in the Ogre book.  For 50 points more, the Stonehorn is a much harder to kill monster with a more predictable attack output, but really Ogres hit so hard in general that the Giant does not add much to them in terms of diversity (and niether does a Stonehorn) of threats.  They are great in armies lacking any heavy hitters and are also a pretty good bullet magnet, but when it comes down to it four maneaters will do pretty much the same job better for fewer points.

Furthermore, the main role that the Giant excels in (beating up other monsters) is one that's better fulfilled by an Ironblaster or two, which don't have to run straight up to said monster to kill it.

Giants are great as they are.  They are the original monster.  Not quite points efficient they still fill a niche role of a very independant hard hitter.  Str 6 thunderstomp and stubborn 10 is not to be sniffed at.  A bit glass cannonish but always fun, I would be upset if they did more than drop his points down to 180ish or gave him an extra wound or toughness.  I would agree that they are bit redundant in the ogre book but I see it as a vestage of a lazily designed original army book.

I am bias, but I love giants. Everything that's been said above is absolutely correct. I however love fielding my Forgeworld giants. They look so impressive on the table and players are even more "intrigued" when they see the model towering over everything. On occasion I'll field both of my Forgeworld giants. It's such a fun time playing and watching the reaction of players a the local GW. A well painted model is always exciting too see. Especially those not commonly used. Do they die? Sometimes. Do I have fun? Always.

In a competition, I've usually opted for one with other rares. Just to keep the spirit of my tribe in effect. Im usually more concerned with "Best Painted" or other visual awards. I love giants and say go ahead and field one. They are a lot of fun. Im even trying to figure out how to convert a couple more Forgeworld giants holding cannons to use as Ironblasters. How sweet would that be?!

I am a total noob with pictures, but here is a link. If you scroll down you see a picture somewhere of my Giant Leadbelcher (Ironblaster). Granted it is a GW giant, but it is an easy conversion and in my opinion looks great.

http://www.gwhobby.net/forum/index.php?topic=8172.210



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That does look awesome! I think that cannon would be a bit too small for the Forgeworld giants. I do however think you did an amazing job! We need more giants in the army. They are too cool!

Am I the only one thats thinks giants should have move 10 or something, look at the length of those legs!

Very cool Giant and I love your painting! Four Arms, really? More like movement 7/8 but not 10. I guess I swas wrong about Giants,  but it would be cool for different trypes of giants like a frost giant, fire giant, rock giant etc.

Am I the only one thats thinks giants should have move 10 or something, look at the length of those legs!

Maybe 7 or 8. M10 would be too much, thats as fast as Slannesh cavelry and Flying units.

I think Brainfreezer had the right idea.

How about a White Dwarf supplement for giants?  There could be different types and upgrades or equipment available.  If giants are intelligent enough to make clothing (of a sort) I'm sure they can make weapons and armor (of a sort).

What kind of types or upgrades would you folks like to see?

Personally, I'd love to kit a giant with some decent protection.  A 3+ or 4+ armor save would seriously make me consider taking him at his point cost.

How about the "Veteran" skill?  It would be a +/- 1 to the result table when you rolled to see what your giant did in combat?

Thanks all for the kind comments on my Giant Leadbelcher (Ironblaster)!

@Casteel, I also have the FW Giant and indeed he is too big for the Ironblaster cannon to look impressive. Thats why I converted him to have a big Gutplate, an Ironfist, a hood and a big Scythe. He looks like one bad ass gigantic Ogre Grim Reaper now!

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Thanks all for the kind comments on my Giant Leadbelcher (Ironblaster)!

@Casteel, I also have the FW Giant and indeed he is too big for the Ironblaster cannon to look impressive. Thats why I converted him to have a big Gutplate, an Ironfist, a hood and a big Scythe. He looks like one bad ass gigantic Ogre Grim Reaper now!

D...

I don't believe I have seen this forgeworld giant of yours any chance on a link of a pic? Thanks 

I'd imagine he's refering to the Chaos Siege Giant from FW.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/CHAOS-SIEGE-GIANT.html

It's a great looking model. Rules aren't half bad either if you have a copy of the Tamurkhan or Monsterous Arcanum. Would be great to see a converted one though!

Hello, beautiful photos!
I have a giant and the only reason to buy it is because I love the thumbnail.
To play, the giant would be a good unit if there is some kind of salvation by armor or special. It is not bad at all, but my opinion is the worst unique ("singular" in spanish) unit that we have in our army.
For my justification of use it would be for the aesthetics of the thumbnail and because the fun of its use.
Sorry for my bad english

I would eventually get a giant my self as I do like the idea have one for comedy purposes.  Just need to get one 

no, I do not mean the Chaos Siege Giant, its the bigg ass Giant from forgeworld. It is in fact twice the size of a GW Giant. Here is the link:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/WARHAMMER-GIANT.html


The GW Giant comes roughly to its waist, its that big!

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no, I do not mean the Chaos Siege Giant, its the bigg ass Giant from forgeworld. It is in fact twice the size of a GW Giant. Here is the link:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/WARHAMMER-GIANT.html


The GW Giant comes roughly to its waist, its that big!

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Do you have a pic of your own conversion?