Fresh Meat

Hello,

I seek advice.
I made some mistakes when I started my Tomb Kings army, in terms of the way I purchased and built my army, I learn't this as my TK knowledge grew, although I have a massive army now, I do not wish to repeat this mistake with my Ogres.

So my question is, with your knowledge now, what would you buy and paint first if you had to start afresh?

I have 2 boxes of Ironguts, I can afford to buy whatever I want, but ofc I have other paint projects, so it is more about time then money.
I understand the powerful cavalry but it needs to be supported properly.
I appreciate any help.
I thank you in advance for any advice.

Doc

Doc,

More than anything, you'll be wanting or needing a solid core of Ogre Bulls. The general consensus is that they rock, and form the foundations of all solid armies. Then, I would definitely go for a Thundertusk or Stonehorn, and maybe a Butcher. More than anything though, perhaps it is best to go for models you would like to model and paint

JJ

@ JJ

Thank you.
I was under the impression that IG's were best for core, so then, I could stick with the 6 I have and buy some Bulls for Core.

The Mournfang get rave reviews everywhere I read/listen.
The Stonethorn for the initiative bonus?
And a few characters.

Is that a good start?

If painting was the only consideration:
Stonehorn, IG's, Skragg, Firebelly, Mournfang and Gorgers would be my preference but I know that might not be a good synergistic comp.

Doc

A mix of the two units is best. Bulls and Ironguts have different purposes. Bulls eat weak enemy units. Ironguts chop through elite troops.

They can do each others job, but at a cost in effectivness.

I usually have bulls and IGs in a 2/1 ratio.


You will want 2 Ironblasters. Not only are they awsome, but they also fill a weakness of the OK army. Namely enemy Monsters and other Warmachines.

Mournfangs are best in units of 4. 4 with Ironfists, HA, and the Dragonhide Banner are a unit that will shred anything that doesn't reduce saves by more then 1. On the charge, they will average around 20 wounds, before saves, against T4 enemies while only taking 1-2 wounds in return(if the enemy is lucky)

Alternativly, people run mournfangs in units of 2 as flanking and harrasment units. They won't kill enemy units by themselves, but they will help your other units succeed.

Finally, Sabretusks. Best chaff in the game. Use single kitties to dictate your enemies movement. Block/redirect their charges, eat wizards/warmachines that expose themselves, etc...

@ GT

Thank you as well.

You both have clued me up.
I will build around that 2/1 Bulls ratio and go from there.

Thank you
Doc

Although Grey Templars advice is sound, you do not need Bulls to make a succesfull list. A lot of players, including myself, never use them and stock up on Ironguts. I am not saying Bulls are a bad choice but it depends on how you plan to play your game and the type of list you want to make.

For this reason it is hard to give advice to your question. There are many good units in our book, but it depends on your playstyle on what you need to purchase first.

For example, if you go for a shooty list I would advice you to buy: Leadbelchers, Ironblasters, Gnoblars (yes gnoblars!) and Maneaters.

If you want to go for all out stomping you should get: Mournfangs, Mournfang, Mournfang 

So for now I will just mention units you can never go wrong with:

Mournfang, Sabretusks, Ironblaster, Maneaters

You will allways find a spot in a competetive list for these units.

D...

Maelstrom have a summer promo on GW, so going to make my final "starter" purchases.

Notes:

These 4 things must be considered when I bulk out my 2 boxes of IG's, they are not set in stone, I want a workable army after all, but they would sway my choices.

#We decided to drop down from 25-2800 points this weekend and I would imagine by the time my Ogre army is ready we will still be near our new total of 1800.
#I love the look of some of the models, they are gorgeous.
#What I prefer to paint.
#I want to try a IG core, might not even field the 6 bulls from a battalion box.

So in my basket currently:

1x Battalion box
2x Blaster boxes
3x Mournfang boxes
1x Slaughter/butcher pack
1x Stonehorn box
1x Hunter pack

This would give me 14 IG's & 6 Bulls for my core, plenty for 1800 pt lists I hope.

Unless you advise me "Woah there Doc" "Hunter as a General on a Stonehorn"?!
I want to try that, for the extra distance for Generals inspiring presence, I will not buy a Tyrant this time round, unless you scream at me.

I was desperate to buy Skrag or Bragg, but cannot justify their cost (pts).

I will not buy maneaters just yet, as I want to dedicate some serious time to painting them (winter).
Happy to buy a firebelly just for the painting, might not take it every time.

I will place a separate order with GW for the items only GW stock, sabertusks, a character etc.
This along with toys should give me plenty of room for a solid 1800pts list?
Any massive errors with my ideas please?

Thank you in advance
Doc

ps a whole roasted Dwarf Thane to the best advisor

(insert silly quote block)
Although Darkminion's advice is sound, you do not need Ironguts to make a succesfull list. A lot of players, including myself, never use them and stock up on Bulls. I am not saying Ironguts are a bad choice but it depends on how you plan to play your game and the type of list you want to make.
(ending quote block)

  sorry Darkminion.  Couldn't resist.

This is one of those wonderful debates without an answer that periodically blow though the boards.  Darkminion is absolutely right about how it all comes down to preference and play style.

A BSB bruiser and at least 1 Ironblaster are the only true must-take parts of any list, since as Grey said, they help cover two of the big weaknesses in an OK army.  Namely, leadership and monsters/war machines.  And if the points allow, 2 Ironblasters should be taken whenever possible.  Cool as the big monsters are, the IBs just are better in every aspect.

I love Bragg's model, and regularly use him as a Maneater.  I just couldn't let that model sit around.

Personally, I recommend a few friendly proxy games to see what you like.  MFC are a popular unit, but almost as many people use maneaters instead (they're also way more fun to build and paint IMO  ).  I personally also have 12 leadbelchers that regularly hit the field in some form or fashion.

so, grab some cardboard base cut-outs and throw down some friendly games.  It REALLY helps save time and money, and most players are perfectly willing to help.

Copied from : http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=23792.msg317976#msg317976

I would suggest you build your army in the following order, adding more units as you can afford it.

#1 - a battalion (make 6x ogres - full command and ironfists, 6x ironguts - full command, 4x leadbelchers)
#2 - 30 bases, size 20mm (put the gnoblars from the battalion on these bases)
#3 - a firebelly
#4 - another battalion (make 3x ogres - ironfists, 3x ironguts, 2x leadbelchers, save the rest until you get a better idea what list you want to run, put the gnoblars on the bases you have left over from #2)
#5 - ironblaster (build as an ironblaster, put leftover gnoblars on bases from #2)
#6 - slaughtermaster
#7 - 1 box of sabretusks
#8 - 1 box of mournfang cavalry (build with a musician and standard bearer, use ironfists)
#9 - another ironblaster (build as an ironblaster, put leftover gnoblars on bases from #2)
#10 - another box of mournfang cavalry (use ironfists)
#11 - another box of sabretusks
#12 - convert a bsb (use leftover bits from all of the above, use an ogre body from #4 or buy Bragg / paymaster maneater / hunter / tyrant models to convert)
#13 - you should have a good idea how you want to expand from here:  buy or convert some maneaters, a tyrant, another firebelly, another butcher, a thundertusk / stonehorn, more mournfang cavalry, etc.

I would magnetize the arms for 2 sets of musicians and standard bearers each from my ogres, ironguts, and mournfang cavalry.  You will very rarely run more than 2 units of each type.  Champions are a great idea for ogres / ironguts and a horrible idea for mournfang cavalry.  Ogres and mournfang cavalry will always have ironfists.  If you get a stonehorn / thundertusk, I would magnetize it if you're up for the challenge (I have heard it is difficult to do).  There is no need to magnetize your characters, ironblasters, non-command models of ogres / ironguts / mournfang.  I would recommend against buying and building a hunter, any of the special characters, a scraplauncher, or gnoblar fighters.  Most of these units are not good enough to use competitively or in the case of gnoblars, can be easily converted from the kits above.  These noncompetitive choices do make great conversions (except for the scraplauncher), so feel free to buy them for that purpose.

Some other helpful advice:
- For modeling accessories (glue, knives, brushes, basing materials, etc), don't buy the expensive Citadel brand.  I recommend getting most of these items at a local hobby store for a much cheaper price.  You can use regular superglue, for example.
- Rare earth magnets can be bought on eBay with free shipping (expect it to take 2 weeks) for much less than in a local store.  I recommend size 3mm x 2mm for switching arms and 6mm x 2mm for magnetizing bases or the stonehorn/thundertusk.
- For primer, I recommend Citadel brand.  It may cost a bit more, but Citadel has excellent customer service in the event the primer messes up a valuable model.
- For paints, I recommend Citadel, Reaper, Vallejo, and Armypainter paints.  Everybody has their own favorite, but they are all quality paints.  Armypainter has an interesting approach called "dipping".  There are several threads around this forum discussing it.

Hope this helps!

-Snark

Yup, great help, thanks peeps.

Doc

ps Whilst roasting the dwarf, the spit broke, we burnt the dwarf and I had to eat.....sorry bin him.

Sorry, but a Hunter can't be the General. It's one reason why he sucks so much.

If he could be the General, a Stonehorn Hunter might be viable as the 18" IP would be nice. Combined with the ok combat potential. Alas, his rules stink.

(insert silly quote block)
Although Darkminion's advice is sound, you do not need Ironguts to make a succesfull list. A lot of players, including myself, never use them and stock up on Bulls. I am not saying Ironguts are a bad choice but it depends on how you plan to play your game and the type of list you want to make.
(ending quote block)

  sorry Darkminion.  Couldn't resist.

Damn you Nihmwit! 



Oh...and if only Hunters could be generals......that would have sold a great deal of Stonehorn kits I'd say.....


D...

lol, you're welcome 

And hunters can be generals to sabretusks...kinda.  Or was that last rule set?

Tyrant or Slaughtermaster as general?

BSB with standard of discipline to make up for 8 LD, toys on the caster make him just as killy as Tyrant, cant work it out.
Doc

I prefer an SM as general.

First, I take Maw as my lore.  Ogres do really well with the addition of buffs.  +1 toughness or 4+ regen can make it REALLY hard to kill T4, 3 wound models, and +1 strength really shines when you get 18 attacks from only 2 standard ranks.  From the caster's perspective, the lore also allows him to consistantly heal himself, especially since most of the spells have moderate casting costs (base, not boosted).  This also helps protect you from enemy magic by giving you a +4 to dispelling.

I usually run him with support gear and protect him in the second rank.  An example being Crown of Command, Dispel scrolls, hellhearts, iron curse icon, MR items, etc.  Given his place in the second rank and his ability to heal himself, you don't really need protective gear, and with 5 wounds, you really only worry about the "sucked into the warp" miscast result (which a ward save doesn't work against anyways).

The most common "front-line" build people use is Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Dragonbane Gem, and Crown of Command.  This offers Stubborn support, an additional attack, capability against ethereals, while also serving to protect the SM from attacks (anything WS 4 or lower hits him on a 6, and everything else hits him on a 5), and give an emergency 2+ ward save against flaming attacks (which ogres see alot of).

If you take an SM as general, you will DEFINITELY want to augment his leadership with the standard of discipline mixed somewhere in his unit, either on the BSB (my preference) or by placing him in a unit of Ironguts.

@ Nihmwit

Perfect, exactly what I wanted to read, thank you for that.
Doc

In contrast to all of the above advice...

Read all the fluff to find your favorite units and get them.

Get your favorite models to look at.

Convert your models however looks best to you, no longer looks like the intended unit? Never mind, use it as a different one.

Put all your models on a table in front of you and write a list that fits them in legally no matter how 'competitive' it is on paper.

Play with it, tweaking here and there, it wont take long to get it to work and win games.

This approach only works well with some armies, Ogres being one of them.

I stated with a few boxes of ironguts and now i never field them. Nihmwit provides solid advice, he has helped me immensly in the construction of my list.

For my input, i feel that a minimum of one ironblaster should be built as soon as you have your troops and general. And i recommend two of them. They are time tested some of the best (if not the best) cannons in the game.

I also feel that the SM makes the best general choice, i can never justify a tyrants points, especially in a list with only bulls in the troops choice.

Sabertusk are great addition to an army as well; low points, low cost, high effectivity!

-red

Yeah, I am seeing the Ironblaster love.

I make my decision tomorrow (friday) waiting on my local store to get back to me with a similar price, if he comes close he gets the order, support local and all that.

Including all the # notes I made up top and some great advice I will be something like:

SM
Butcher
Bruiser
IG core
8 Mournfang
Sabertusks
2 Ironblasters

Stonehorn x1 & Leadbelchers in reserve x 4

Might treat myself to Bragg and Maneaters will wait until winter holes me up for some serious painting/conversion love.

Doc

I know I am late weighing in here but thought I would still share my 2 cents.

I do not really believe there are as many auto include options in an ogre army as other people.  I have played quite a lot of games and only tried an ironblaster once yet I have still managed to win so therefore personally do not see it as an auto include - though depending on your environment and if you attend tournaments this may differ.

I also do not believe the armybook has any "bad" choices, there are a couple of potentially subpar units (Yhetees, Scraplaunchers and Sabretusk packs in my opinion, but they are still more than playable.

I think if I was starting an ogre army again the first things I would work on would be:

8 Ironguts w/ Full Command
8 Ogre Bulls w/ Full Command and Ironfists
Bruiser BSB
Slaughtermaster or Tyrant (dependent on preference)

This gives you solid core choices for anything up to around the 2.5k area and let's you try out both bulls & Ironguts as well as the two characters you will nearly always want, a Battle Standard Bearer & a general.

After that paint what you like and you'll probably have a more than playable army

Hope this gives you a bit more insight to what I'd do and helps you pick your painting order

Thanks

Tozon


PS. My next step would be paint loads of Leadbelchers because they are OGRES with GUNS.  See, OGRES, with GUNS.  GUNS on OGRES. Awesome….

Sadly, Tozon, you have been misinformed. 

Leadbelchers are not Ogres with guns.  They are Ogres with CANNONS!  CANNON-TOTING OGRES.  See, first the Ogre can SHOOT you with the cannon, and then, if you charge them, he HITS you with it.

My last game was against WoC, and my group of 10 leadbelchers defended an entire flank against two 45-man hordes of marauders.  The rest of my army died horribly to nurgle knights and tzeench wizards, but those leadbelchers blasted or bludgeoned their way through 70+ of them.

The boxes are purchased!

I am the proud owner of:
1x Battalion box
2x IG boxes
2x Ironblaster boxes
4x Mournfang boxes
2x Butcher boxes
1x Tyrant box
1x Stonehorn box
2x Leadbelcher boxes
1x Firebelly box

Let the painting commence!

Doc