2500 Ogres vs Vampire Counts League Battle Report - looking for feedback

Hey Ogre Stronghold.  I've been a longtime lurker (gorger?) who enjoys playing with Ogres.  I'm in two leagues and am going starting to play in my local tournament circuit this month.  As I prep for much more competitive play, I'm looking for some feedback, and was hoping the fine members of this forum could provide me with some additional analysis or pointers after reading this battle report.

Enjoy:

OK, so week 5 and we are on to 2500 point armies.  I was playing the Ogres, and was up against Nick with Vampire Counts. 

Ogres vs. Vampire Counts

Date played: Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Ogres
General: Christian

    (IG1) Ironguts 1 - 885 points
    7 Ironguts, full command, BSB and General
   
    (IG2) Ironguts 2 - 288 points
    6 Ironguts, full command

    (LB) Leadbelchers - 483 points
    7 Leadbelchers, musician, Firebelly
   
    (MF1) Mournfang 1 - 310 points
    4 Mournfang, standard, musician
   
    (MF2) Mournfang 2 - 150 points
    2 Mournfang, standard
 
    (S1) Sabertusk 1 - 21 points

    (S2) Sabertusk 2 - 21 points

    (IB1) Ironblaster 1 - 170 points

    (IB2) Ironblaster 2 - 170 points

    Total: 2498 points

Vampire Counts
General: Nick

    (CH) 6 Crypt Horrors - 228 points

    (HW) 5 Hexwraiths - 150 points

    (FB) 2 Fell Bats - 32 points

    (TG) Terrorgheist - 225 points

    (SH1) Spirit Host 1 - 45 points

    (SH2) Spirit Host 2 - 45 points

    (S1) Skelly 1 - 499 points
    Vampire, Banshee, 34 skeletons

    (S2) Skelly 2 - 315 points
    28 Skelletons, FC, necromancer

    (GG) Grave Guard - 464 points
    27 Grave Guard, FC, Wraith
   
    (MN) Master Necromancer - 275 points

    (Z) 20 Zombies - 70 points

    (W1) 5 Wolves - 40 points

    (W2) 5 Wolves - 40 points

    (W3) 5 Wolves - 40 points

    (W4) 5 Wolves - 40 points

    Total: 2508 points  (I'm sure this is 2498.  I'm going off of his paper... I don't have the vc book)

Now I'm happy to get to play Vampire Counts, as they are an army I have never in my life played against.  When last I played fantasy there was just a single undead book.  Vampires led units of mummies while screaming skull catapults and wraith cavalry wreaked havoc, and giant skeletons creaked across the battlefield.  Spells could give your undead units extra rounds of rolling attacks in hand to hand during the magic phase.  The game was herohammer, and undead had some of the best heroes out there.  And we had to walk uphill both ways.

So, this will be new for me.

We rolled for terrain and got 10 pieces.



The buildings were normal.  There were three patches of forest, all mysterious.  The tower in the middle was a sorcerous portal, so that would be shooting spells all game.  In the north east was a haunted mansion that shot d6 strength 1 magical attacks at any units within 6".  None of the rest of the terrain had any appreciable effect.

OK, so deployment.  As you can see from the lists above the VC player had a significant unit advantage.  I was regretting filling the middle of the board with so much terrain, as I wasn't sure how to get my units to support each other.  In the end I played a pretty basic refused left... but with so few drops it was not going to be an effective strategy.  It looked to me like my opponent was playing horde middle, but with so many fast units on the flank I couldn't be sure.



We both put large blocks in the middle, and we both placed chaff on left flank.  I had my largest unit of mournfang on my far right flank... and late he placed three units of chaff on that side.  Normally the heavy cav on the outside flank works well for me because of their ability to redeploy, but I was worried about all that chaff.

I also noticed he placed a spirit host to each side, and a unit of hexwraiths also to the right flank.  Ogres are at a special disadvantage against ethereal units, as they don't have the normal ways of dealing with it.  Almost nothing in the army can deal magic damage, and typically units have no or very minor rank bonuses and/or command setups, so it is difficult to impossible to kill them with combat resolution.  I can't even put characters in most of the units in my book, including mournfang, so 5 point magic swords aren't even really an option.  Finally, my magic is buff based, not really a lot of spell options to deal magic damage.  Only 3 ethereal units, but I'm thinking that will be too much for the way my army works.

OK, so I ended up getting the first turn.  That helped a little with the deployment disadvantage.  Against a horde middle you want to soften up the two flanks prior to collapsing the middle if your enemy doesn't allow you to get a standard flank move.  My flanks looked like they would be thwarted in making support moves, so the left block of skeletons and the crypt horrors become my main strategic targets.

My opponent starts with vanguard moves, all of his wolves moving up.

I advance, careful to keep my central units several inches apart, giving me a wider frontage to deny a similar strategy being used against me.  I'm worried that my 6 ironguts on the right flank will be a bad matchup against his 6 crypt horrors, but we both have 4 main blocks in the middle, so that would be that outside clash.  Now, I kind of prepared for this, I knew my 6 IG were the weak link, which is why I had so much strong support on the right.  The leadbelchers should be able to take care of themselves on the left, especially with a beefy character in the unit.  My mournfang in the middle continue to hang back several inches behind my front line... they are designed to be a counter-charge unit.

My small unit of ironguts step their toe into the forest just to roll and find out what it is.  What a huge mistake.  It ends up being a wildwood, which does D6 S4 hits at the end of the movement phase.  Some hideous rolling leads to me taking 5 wounds.  Ouch!

I run into a problem with my right ironblaster (IB2) moving before the mournfang.  There is no longer 1" from the ironblaster the mournfang can move through, they are stuck between the ironblaster and the altar of skulls sitting at the midpoint of the table on the right.  Now, maybe I should have checked the book, but I assumed the altar was impassable, so I couldn't just move over it.  I'm not sure that is true re-reading the book... it seems to only be an obstacle.  I think instead I could have moved over the altar and just taken a dangerous terrain test.  If I had thought this was an option, I would have played the mournfang very differently...  But I was playing 3rd edition obstacle rules, not 8th edition.  So weird to me you can move over any terrain with just a test.



A kitty takes cover behind a wall.  I don't have great firing lanes... but they are there.  In the magic phase I get bubbles of both +1 Toughness and Regen.  In shooting my leadbelchers on the left start the dirty work of knocking out that flank, and fire at one of my main targets, the left skeleton block, killing 5.

Now my second target has to be the crypt horrors, because they will control the outside of that flank.  However, one cannon misfires and spins around wildly... the other cannon shoots long and hits the terrorghiest... and rolls a 1 to wound.  The haunted mansion with its s1 magic attacks wound the terrorgheist and kill one hexwraith.  The terrain is more effective than my shooting so far.

A lot happened on this turn.



Moving, the undead shamble forward.  On the left a unit of wolves charges the sabertusk who is defensively positioned behind the wall.  On the right a unit of wolves moves up to block my mournfang.  The rest of the army advances.

Also, checked the book and on the forest it says a unit takes wounds at the end of the movement phase.  This is the end of a movement phase, so still having poked my feet in the forest lead to me taking two more wounds just from the terrain.  I have now lost 7 wounds from my most fragile unit to magical terrain.

In the magic phase my opponent got off two spells.  One was invocation, allowing him to bolster 4 of his central units, the other was the dance which gave his army re-rolls (to hit? to wound?  I don't remember) and allowed them all to take an extra move.  I didn't think it was worth it to use any of my magic defense items so soon, so I didn't stop almost anything he cast.

Shooting brought a nasty surprise, as his banshee screamed at my mournfang.  Again, I am used to units blocking line of sight, so under the rules I am used to this would not have been a legal move.  But in 8th, everyone seems to just always see everyone, which I am struggling to adjust to.  Anyway, with no saves allowed my 2+ armor and 4+ regen do nothing, I take 3 wounds, and half of that unit is already dead.

In combat, striking from behind the wall helps my sabertusk, he suffers no wounds, and does one wound back.  It is a drawn combat.

So, for just about the first time ever I retreat.  I hate doing this as it can lose you momentum, but there is a lot going on here.

First off, my mournfang on the far right can't charge the wolves sitting in their face, as the wheel to "close the door" still takes them within 1" of the ironblaster, so it is not a legal charge.  Now, I COULD charge the ironblaster at something in the middle, fail the charge, move into the damaging wood, and then resolve my mournfang charge second... but if I do that I move my ironblaster out of position, I may take wounds, and I lose a turn of shooting from the cannon and there are still all those big units out there.  In the end I decide the extra turn of shooting is more important than sacrificing my ironblaster to let the mournfang munch a 40 point unit.

So, on the right flank all I do is reform, to lower the frontage of the mournfang so they are no longer paralyzed by the wheel distance getting to close to the ironblaster.  That's right, some of the toughest cav in the game and I've been forced to move 5" followed by a reform.  I lose style points right there.

On the left, my second sabertusk charges in to help the first.

In the middle I'm left with lots of things I'm not used to.  I apologize to my opponent for how long it takes me to think through this.  Here is what I see:
My opponent is making it easier for me on the left flank, my "weaker" flank, by splitting a unit off from his main force.  On the right, what should have been my strong flank... lack of range to the general and the dance spell means that his crypt horrors, which SHOULD be the right flank unit to take on my ironguts, are lagging.  This has stopped the coordination of the central units and the flank units of infantry... which greatly weakens a horde middle strategy.  I'm not sure that is what my opponent is playing, but that is what he deployed for.... and now he is separating his forces for me?!?

At this point, my advancing only serves to help his crypt horrors get back in position, where as, if I (shudder) retreat, there is a chance he will cast the dance again and move his central infantry blocks even further out of position.  I don't want to take any MORE wounds on my weak right flank ironguts, so I can only move forward or backward.  I decide to back up.  This does give my ironblaster on the left a clear fire lane down his right flank units.... horrors especially which are the unit I think will collapse my line by taking out the guts.  Also, there is a chance I can get him to overcommit the central two blocks of infantry.

But the strangeness doesn't stop there.  My other mournfang are an awesome counter-charge unit.  But I can't stand up to another scream... and I know I'm not going to charge the banshees unit.  My only choice is to charge the one remaining mournfang just to try and get some points back before the unit is destroyed.  Great, now I have to waste my counter-charge for nothing.  Can ANYTHING go right for me this game?

The only unit that is easy to move are the leadbelchers.  They are a good infantry unit that gains no benefit from charging, so I just move to 1" out from the skelly on the left, I'm DYING to knock this unit out so I can maybe manage a draw if I collapse his left as fast as he collapses my right and it is a positional push.



Magic, my opponent stops a fireball and my +1 toughness spell, but I get a bubble of the regen off (my one mournfang stands a chance to survive his charge!)

Shooting is good and bad.  For my warmachines, it is bad.  My ironblaster on the left lines up a perfect shot on his Crypt Horrors, but he makes his regen save on the first model, and monstrous infantry stop cannon balls, I never even get to roll against the other two.  My ironblaster on the right is starting to be effected by its 12" minimum range... but I still have 22.5" to the back of his terrorgheist.... so I'm thinking 5/6 chance of putting a cannonball on that thing (only a misfire will stop me).  I stupidly placed a dice to mark the position.... and then rolled a 10 on the first die, and my opponent measures and shows the ball just misses his terrorgheist.

Now, I know this comes from one.... the dice get bumped... and two I place the dice so the edge facing me is where the cannon hits, but he is measuring from the edge that faces him.  Using dice as markers is very inaccurate, and a bad play habit when you can pre-measure everything anyway.  We roll off, I'm not happy to have a legitimate disagreement with an opponent, and we rule the shot does nothing.  Normally I don't like to challenge an opponent on a measurement, so I'm a little upset at myself for not just letting the issue drop, learn my lesson, and work on a solution after the game.  Lesson learned, I will always, always, always measure from the base of the ironblaster from now on so this sort of thing can't happen again.

Normal shooting goes much better.  My firebelly unleashes a nasty template attack, and my leadbelchers open up.  Dozens of undead die.  Hooray.

And, just to remind me how much my cannons suck, the stupid S1 haunted house manages another kill on the hexwraiths and a second wound on the terrogheist.

Finally hand to hand, the one thing my army is good at anyway.  The two sabertusks easily wipe the wolves on the left.  My mournfang unleashes his fury into the grave guard, and with impact hits, etc... well, he kills 5, and takes 3 wounds back on the dot.  (grrrr)  So close to living there.  I'm seeing now that neither of my units of mournfang will make back their points.

Here we are, Vampire turn 2, and this was probably the most important turn of the game.

Lets start with moving.  My opponent confirms that he is not going to try and trip me up with maneuver shenanigans with his faster right flank troops, and he instead comes right for me.  On the left he charges with his skeletons with banshee and vampire, and the unit of dire wolves.  His spirit host also charges one of my sabertusks.

In the middle, my opponent measures, and thinks for a bit.  His grave guard need only a 5 to succeed a charge against my ironguts.  I try to play it cool, but I want him to declare this charge so bad it is killing me.  If the GG charge, all hope of an organized horde middle strategy evaporate.  He can't do enough wounds to knock me off the board, and I'll get counter charges next turn with my left ironblaster, and possibly even my leadbelchers if they do as I plan and roll that flank.  If he succeeds with this charge, I see the chance of victory suddenly light up before me.

He rolls a 4, failed charge, and he ambles forward 2".  Only an 18% chance to fail such a close charge and try and hand me the game.... but my 82% chance of him moving out of position is now just a pipe dream.

On the right his wolves move to box in my mournfang, his terrogheist moves up into scream range, his hex wraiths strafe my ironblaster causing one wound (yay toughness 6).  He is looking to take the fight to me.  His Crypt Horrors move into the damaging wood (he notes his regen save and toughness)... although I think this move is a little too aggressive, as it limits his charge options next turn.



Then the magic phase.  Now we are engaged in hand to hand... He rolls a 9 (6 and 3), and has been holding two dice over every phase, so now he has 11 casting dice, but I have 6 dispel dice, a dispel scroll, and the hellheart.  I have to choose to use the hellheart right away if I'm going to use, and decide now is the best time.  Two of his casters are not yet engaged, so the large templates of S10 hits won't hurt me if they come up.  Many miscast results drain d6 from the power pool, so I think I have a good chance to force him into no spell support for this turn.

In the banshee unit there is a vampire.  He takes a wound and deals a few more wounds to the unit.... and drains d6 power dice.  The strategy is working.  The general of the army rolls a 10.... and so only suffers -D3 caster levels.  Gah, what a good result for him!  And yet.. he loses one level, down to a level 3, and when we randomly determine the spell he loses it is invocation.  He tells me that is the key to his whole army.  The third wizard also rolls a 10, also loses d3 levels, taking him down to level 0 and no spells.

It didn't do a lot of damage, but his vampire is hurt, his main caster is only level 3, and that is all he is left with for magic support.  I've seen vampire counts struggle with limited magic in two previous weeks (once at a nearby table, once when the vc was my ally), so I'm hoping this along with the positioning on the field will be enough to win me the game.  He throws his dice at a spell, I dispel, and that is the end of the magic phase.

Shooting (again, I'm losing the shooting phase all game to a vampire counts army, how pathetic am I?) his big bone bat screams and takes two more wounds off my already injured ironblaster.

Hand to hand leads to some interesting results.

First, the spirit host on the sabertusk.  The host charged and did a wound.  I couldn't hurt it back, so I lost combat by 2.  I'm leadership 4 with a minus 2 penalty, so I need snake eyes to hold.  And I roll snake eyes!!!  What?  That sabertusk gets a name!

Then there is the fight with the leadbelchers.  Heroes traded blows, my firebelly takes a wound but I kill his vampire.  Both of his units put the rest of their attacks in the leadbelchers, leading to no wounds.  My full attacks back plus stomps lead to 13 more wounds, I win combat by 9, both of his units poof (there were 5 or fewer models left in each unit).

Here is where the analysis gets interesting, because through to the end my opponent claimed his mistake here cost him the game.  I cause fear, and his unit of skeletons was the normal terror-bomb setup.  So, I need to take a fear test, I'm in range of general and bsb, I pass.  My opponent forgot to use his banner which made me test on the worst 2 of 3d6.  He was very distraught and said this may have won me the game.

I've looked at it and looked at it, and I don't see the outcome being any different.  I think I must be missing something.  The worst that happens to me for failing the fear test is I am WS 1, there is no other penalty for fear in this edition.  He is WS2, so the combat was fought with me needing 3s to hit and him needing 4s... if I had failed both of my rolls on the leadership his best case is only him hitting on 3s and ME hitting on 4s.... but he still does not average doing even one wound.  He had 9 attacks hitting on 3s on average instead of 4s is 6 hits, then needing 5s to wound is 2 wounds, then I get a 6+ armor followed by a 4+ regen... even with the ws advantage that only comes out to .666 wounds.... a CHANCE of doing one wound, but no more on average.

On the other hand, taking out my wounds for stomps, I did 11 wounds... figure hitting on 4s instead of 3s is roughly 25% less so say I go down to 8 wounds for those affected by fear.  Still, at best he is looking at a combat result swing of 4, but he lost by nine.... so he still would have lost by at least 5 on average.... enough to still have poofed the wolf unit and if not destroying the skellies leaving them with like one model.


Perhaps he was thinking that he could make me run for causing terror not remembering I'm immune to terror as everything causes fear.  Perhaps he saw something in the numbers there that leads to him winning that combat somehow.  I just don't see it.  What am I missing here?

OK, so my move phase.  This is the thick of battle.

On the right, my hapless mournfang finally can legally declare a charge, and so do.  My ironblaster on the right finds itself in the same position as my already dead unit of mournfang... I can never survive another round of hexwraiths AND a scream, so might as well try and get some points.... so I charge the terrorgheist (pass my fear test as well).

The ironguts in the middle both have good options.  My small unit can charge his bats, which will take me past the crypt horror charge arc.  I've been dreading that matchup all game, and now my opponents aggressiveness is going to let me side-step the matchup.  This kind of lets me re-draw the battle-lines making his OTHER unit of skeletons his true flank.... I think this won me the game myself.

My central ironguts were not yet hurt, and they are about half of my points cost, so I needed to get them stuck into combat.  I charged in the middle.  I really WANTED to charge from the leadbelchers in the flank as well, but terrain worked against me, so it is going to take an extra turn for me to turn winning that flank in my favor.  The leadbelchers are instead forced to basically do nothing for a whole turn.... what a waste at such a crucial juncture!

My unengaged ironblaster moves for a desperation shot on the crypt horrors.  My sabertusk not in combat on the left moves up to put pressure on the lord and back unit of zombies.



Magic is interesting.  I try and cast my regen bubble.... and miscast!  I take some wounds on my general and unit... but I get the bubble up.  Then, I go for a toughness bubble, and my opponent uses his dispel scroll.  Too bad, toughness 5/6 would have helped plenty against all those s6 attacks I would be facing.

Shooting was again pointless, because my leadbelchers were out of position, so they couldn't shoot.  My ironblaster got another gorgeous shot right across three crypt horrors.... and rolled a 1 to wound the first one, and monstrous infantry stop cannonballs.... so no wounds again.

The mournfang destroyed the wolves on impact hits alone.  Could I have over-run and tried to hit the terrogheist?  Maybe??  I don't know there was a way for me to dodge the spirit host tarpit waiting for me at this point.  The ironblaster, yet again showing me these things are built for hand to hand and not shooting, killed the terrorgheist and took no wounds back.  Yay toughness 6 again.

My ironguts who had charged the bats easily killed them and took no wounds (this unit only took wounds from the woods the whole game!), and then over-ran into the right unit of skeletons.  This is a matchup I would have taken any day, didn't think I would ever get access to such a juicy unit.  Misplacement of Crypt Horrors is paying dividends for me.

In the middle the real battle began.  yes, it was a thousand point unit against a sub 500 point unit.  But those grave guard can hit as hard as I can.  I took 9 wounds even after my regen saves (ouch) and I lose combat but easily hold with the crown of command and bsb sitting in this unit.  I was really hoping to have support to take on this fight, and terrain and the position of the second skelly unit aren't making that possible.  This is the hardest way to win, taking on units one at a time.

For the next several combat phases the lone tusk and the spirit host duke it out in pointless combat.

Ok, starting to wind down now.  Vamp turn 3.

His hexwraiths strafe my ironblaster again, and this time manage better rolling to overcome my toughness and kill me.  As expected the spirit host charges my mournfang (he rolled a 2! on his charge distance.  He should have failed the charge in my world... ha ha).  Tarpit that unit out of the game.  The Crypt Horrors sort of lounge towards the middle, they were so out of position after his last move he needed another turn to get them in any kind of charge position.  His last unit of wolves also moves full speed toward the middle now.

In the middle his necro lord leaves his bunker unit of zombies, and the zombies turn to face the sabertusk threat.



Magic phase saw me use my dispel scroll, but he still got a magic missile through in the phase, pummeling my poor kitty with 12 s4 hits... it dies.

Shooting... no shooting, the screamers are finally dead.

Hand to hand.  The ghost swarm wins combat against my mournfang but they hold.  My two units of ironguts finally get down to the tough job of butchering the enemy army.  Against the skeletons my small unit of ironguts, still at 4 models, manages to not take a wound, but deals plenty in return... leading to skeletons crumbling at a 2 to 1 rate for what I kill them at (he does still have a rank bonus, so not quite, but close).

Against my superstar unit, his grave guard continue to do well, but all of my characters have higher initiative, so they strike before the units.  My central unit does quite well, as my high initiative heroes are now killing back rank units before they have a chance to strike.  The Grave Guard survive, but with just two models left.  My central unit has lost 6 whole ogres, 18 wounds to all the rounds of combat here, but has done more than that back, and will win the fight.  Also, my hero and lord are barely hurt, and still have plenty of unit-killing fight left in them.  This fight has still been way closer than I would like given the points imbalance involved.

OK, for what is left on the field most things are engaged.  What isn't engaged are my ironblaster and leadbelchers.  Now, I can strip the regen off the horrors with my firebelly, so I kind of want to get him into combat with them.  By now I see my ironguts will win the fight with the grave guard, and the other skelly block is likely to fall, so this rear threat is the only one to take seriously.  The ironblaster COULD charge, but toughness six units don't like poison.  I decide that I would rather shoot up the horrors this turn, then work on counter charging next turn after they pick a target.



My magic phase, I rolled a two, and was easily dispelled.

Shooting... my cannon misfired, so again no cannonballs do anything.  It is official, 4 rounds of shooting, not a single cannon shot has done a wound.... just awful.  Just to add insult to injury, even with the high toughness and regen save my leadbelchers manage a few wounds with standard shooting.

Hand to hand.... this is pretty predictable.  My small unit of 4 ironguts just continues to grind down the skeleton unit, who just can't manage to wound.  The central unit easily finishes off the last two models before they can strike back.  I then choose to reform facing my rear, expecting a charge from the crypt horrors.

Not a lot left to do.  The necromancer moves farther away from the middle.  The crypt horrors easily manage a charge against my core unit.  The hexwraiths wanted to charge my unit of 4 ironguts, but had been placed wrong and couldn't see their target, so instead swooped towards my second ironblaster.  The zombies start to move to come around the tower.  My guess is that here he is hoping I will get distracted by the bait and pull my very expensive leadbelcher unit out of the central fight to go deal with trash.




In a bout of bad luck in the magic phase, my opponent rolls a 4 on two dice needing a 5 for his spell to go off.  It fails to cast without me doing anything... and as he has only one wizard the phase ends.  that is right, I'm looking at 3 straight VC magic phases with the only spell that got through a missile to kill a tusk.  That is a win right there.

There is no shooting.

Hand to hand, my brave-needs-a-name sabertusk on the left finally dies to ghostly blows.  My small unit of ironguts finishes off the last of the second skeleton unit. 

The only thing that matters here is the crypt horrors.  He puts all of his attacks against the unit, going for combat res.  He does kill my normal standard bearer.  My central unit is now down to just the champion at full wounds, my general with four wounds left, and my bsb with two wounds left.  I kill a crypt horror or two in revenge.

Well, what are you going to do if you are an ogre player but charge?

I considered charging the hexwraiths with my cannon, if he failed to wound back I win combat by one.... but instead decided to take one last pot shot at the wolves to try and do SOMETHING with a cannonball.

The leadbelchers which are at basically full strength charge his crypt horrors in the flank, fire damage and all.  This is a matchup I've been waiting for.

The small ironguts find themselves in opportune position, and also charge his general.



Magic.... I get my regen bubble up again (finally... it feels like it has been down for ages) but he dispels my toughness bubble.

Shooting, last chance for the cannon to not be a total waste of space.  The wolves are close, but just outside of 12" so I can place a shot in front of them... I roll an 8" and overshoot into empty space.

That is right, cannons and cavalry, normally my stars, utterly utterly worthless this game.  I'm disgusted.

The ironguts easily kill the general necromancer, and take no wounds back.

The central crypt horrors put all of their attacks on just the lone champion of my main unit... a good move in terms of trying to score victory points... and somehow I survive with one wound.  Go regen save.  Pointless victory there, but I'm happy the unit lives.  My attacks back I destroy the unit.


At this point we call the game.  All of his units will have to take a test or something for the general dying.... and all he really has left are the ethereal units I can't hurt and some zombies.

Victory points are tallied:
He killed both of my kitties - 42 points.
He knocked out a useless ironblaster - 170 points.
And he butchered my central unit of mournfang - 150 points.

That is 362 vp earned from kills.  He also gets +25 vp for the standard off of my mournfang, for 387 total.

But note - there is a several hundred point unit hanging on with just one wound left.... and the game felt much closer than that.

For me, it is easier to subtract.
Still on the board for him are hexwraiths - 150
Zombies - 70
2 spirit hosts - 90
Wolves - 40

That is exactly 350 left on the board.  So 2500-350 is 2150.  Then I got 3 standards and his general for another +175.... my total scored is 2325.


I didn't feel like I had just won by almost 2k.  Half my units were still fresh, but both of my ironguts units were chewed up.  Badly.

Hope you liked the read.

I always analyze my mistakes, and in this game they were legion.  Five really, really stand out though:

1.  I misplayed my large unit of mournfang, badly, again leading to this unit not making close to its points back.  And its not like I made a mistake one turn.... I misplayed them over and over and over again.  I thoroughly deserved to have them stuck against an ethereal tarpit having only killed 40 points all game.  First, I misplayed them in deployment.  They were my last drop.  At this point, I already see my opponent is playing horde middle.  I should have placed them between my right ironguts and my right ironblaster, more or less lined up against the crypt horrors.  I already at this point in deployment am worried about the how my 6 ironguts will match the horrors, why place my mournfang so they need a fancy cross-board move to get into position?  There are no style points when determining a victory.
Then, it gets no better after deployment.  Turn 1, I move the ironblaster first, and it blocks (in my own mind, not by the 8th rules) the move I wanted to make with my mournfang.  Now I know for sure my opponents far right flank is nothing but chaff.  Now NORMALLY putting the mournfang on the far flank is a move I do every time because they can re-deploy to the middle.  Once I can't go in front of the ironblaster nothing stops me from marching behind it, using it as a screen to the chaff, and getting into a useful position in my battle line.  Instead I prance forward 5" doing nothing.  Too proud to admit I made a deployment mistake?  Tired from a hard day of work?  Who knows... there is still no excuse.  I mean, just go up and LOOK at my turn 1 picture.... do YOU see a giant mournfang sized hole behind some trees where they should be?  Because I do.
But wait, it doesn't end there.  So, by my turn 2 I'm still not engaged, and I clearly see my opponent lining up chaff unit after chaff unit to tarpit me all game.  I paid for a musician.... ever hear of a combat reform and move to redeploy?  On turn 2 I could have made the same correction as turn one, re-orient my mournfang and truck it back to the middle by going behind my ironblaster where I can have some impact.  And it is more desperate to do now... my weak ironguts unit is weaker having lost two models.  My opponent is doing nothing deceptive in his movement, and can see what is coming.  Instead, I make a normal reform.  How does this help exactly?  Do I even want to be able to charge the wolves??
But why just suck at deployment and turns 1 and 2, when you can also mess up on turn 3?  Here I destroy the wolves.  Do I premeasure the distance to his spirit host before deciding what to do?  No.  He succeeds a charge rolling snake eyes the next turn!  How about I at least make an attempt on the chaff by over-running and getting the charge bonus on the spirit host to try and start knocking off its wounds.  Instead, I reform to give him a flank charge, because I thought there was a chance he could fail his charge.  Why did I not measure before making my decision?  Too proud to admit I had misplayed them the first two turns.... so might as well continue to misplay them?  I have no justification for this terrible play on my part.

2.  My target selection with my cannons was awful.  OK, so right from deployment I'm worried about how to handle the crypt horrors on the left flank.  Sure, cannons CAN do a lot of damage, so focusing my fire there to try and weaken that unit is what I was going for.
But was it a smart way to use the cannons?  No.  They didn't make back their points because I played like I had never been introduced to the concept of math.
Look, they are the ONLY thing in the VC army save the back rank terrorgheist that can stop a cannonball.  I get a re-roll on my bounce distance.... I live on long shots through multiple units and/or ranks.  What were my odds here?
Well, first off, I need to get a shot to you, so on my fire die I need anything but a misfire (.833 success chance).  (I'm assuming bounce die always succeeds with my re-roll, but there is a small chance of the bounce failing that is not taken into account here).  THEN I need to roll to wound, another 5/6 chance of success, not looking too bad yet (.694 success chance).  THEN you get a 5+ regen save, negating one third of my successes to this point (.462 success chance).  THEN I need to roll D6 wounds, and I need to score at least a 3+ to kill you and go on to the next model.  (.308 success chance).  That is right, I have a LESS than one in three chance of ever taking a horror down with a cannon ball.  I only get a couple shots in a standard game.... there was just no excuse for taking such low percentage shots when I needed every point.  And it is not like anything was stopping me from doing this calculation quickly when determining where to fire.  And there were other good targets where I could try and earn my points back.
I mean, I can try and justify what I was doing by saying that strategically the horrors were a threat that needed neutralizing.  But there were high percentage solutions to that problem (like attempting to re-deploy my mournfang to face them, see above), cannon fire was not one of them.  Identifying your strategic objectives only gets you half there.... it must be followed with determining what can effectively meet your objectives.  I think I got too focused on the S10 vs. T5 matchup... one good roll for me out of 5 dice rolls that would need to be made.
Yeah my cannons did nothing this game... but they only slightly underperformed my chance of success (failing four shots against the horrors when I only have a .308 success chance is not even outside the standard deviation range to be considered bad luck).  And my cannons did nothing not because they were an overpriced unit, not because my opponent used something in his army to neutralize them (chaff, flying chargers, ambushers, etc.), but because I played them poorly in regards to target selection. 
This is why I suck at playing with ranged armies.  But it didn't stop there because...

3.  Just WHAT was I doing with my leadbelchers on my turn 3?  Once it is determined they can't charge, I just sort of move towards the middle a few inches.  Why?  Was I looking to cuddle with my general and ironguts?  Hoot and holler in support for a make believe +1 morale combat rez?  Leadbelchers are not cheerleaders, they are a ranged combat unit with significant hand to hand ability.  I have two moves here, both are better, and both actually support my long term goals.  I could
a) move 6" towards the back middle and shoot at the crypt horrors.  I think this is probably the best move, even though I will get a cover penalty to my shooting.  Why am I playing this unit like a hand to hand unit?  I paid a lot of points so I could carry around giant guns with a 24" range that get no penalty for moving and shooting.  I might want to, ya know, move and shoot?  I might not do a lot, but even moving that 6" could potentially get me in charge range on the following turn.  I already know it is this unit I want to match up against the crypt horrors.  Which is why I could also
b) Have marched 12" straight toward the back middle and toward the horrors, ignoring shooting.  This is also a very attractive option, that may be the better choice.  If I'm going to play this unit like a hand to hand unit, might as well go all in.  I already suspect the horrors will be moving either for a rear charge on my small irongut unit or a rear charge on my central irongut unit.  A strong march here gives me a wide charge range, and makes if very likely I can get a combo charge with my ironblaster against the horrors on my turn 4 given their most likely move destinations.  The horrors weren't even facing to the middle of the board, so I wasn't in danger of being charged BY them.

Instead I take a powerful 500+ point unit and just decide they get front row seats to watching another unit fight.  Every time I re-read the battle report this move just makes me sick.  It is inexcusable, it serves no purpose... and basically loses me the momentum I had just gained for taking the left flank.

4.  I continue to be stuck in older edition rules regarding terrain and line of sight.  In the current version of the rules these have been simplified down to almost a non-factor.  This gives the game over-all less depth, I don't approve of the change, but I need to adjust.
On the line of sight, I read and re-read the section last night.  You have to be able to trace a line from the eyes of the model to the target model, and it can't be arms or wings or swords or banners.  Basically, you need to be able to see the body of the unit you are targeting.  I think I'm going to bring one of those red measuring sticks from the starter box to start trying to determine what does and does not get line of sight.  I think people simplify this by looking from the battlefield from a birds eye view, and imagining that everyone can see everyone.  Only placing large pieces of terrain has any line of sight effect on this game right now, and I'm not convinced that is an accurate way to play.
As for terrain, I just need to keep reading and re-reading the new rules, and try and get the old way of playing out of my head.  Really, I didn't just walk over the altar of bones with my mournfang?  It is like I put up phantom walls for myself that only my army sees.  I really need to get better at this.

5.  My list was not composed well as an all comers list, because it has almost no counter to ethereal units.  I'm a little disappointed in how little the Ogre book can do against ethereal in general.  Now, there are not a ton of these units in the game, but they do exist in a few armies, mainly vampire counts.  I can get access to more destructive magic, but I feel that forces me to put too may points into my already expensive characters.  Also, a VC character is probably better than me at the magic phase, so relying on magic spells to take on ethereal units is a shaky counter.
Changing unit formation to get better non-wound combat rez isn't a workable solution either.  My units are very expensive, I'm just not going to have much if any rank bonus, and more than half the time I don't even have a standard bearer.  My army gains combat resolution through doing physical wounds... period.
This leaves as my only option adding one of my two units that do magic damage.  The Yhetties are widely considered over-priced garbage.  They are move 7, so maybe I could take a small mobile block deployed 2x2 and put it in my back rank, and then react to any ethereal threat.  This still puts 180 pts into a fragile unit that won't be able to justify its points cost in 80% of the fights I bring it too.
My OTHER unit that does magic damage I feel is better for several reasons, the Thundertusk.  Now, the thundertusk does have some problems, its large base size, only 6 wounds for 250 points makes it fragile, it will lower my model and wound count in an army that is already laughably small.  However, I see some potential.  First, it does generate a 6" always strike last aura... which means it could potentially be a great support unit to my asl irongut units in games where I don't need the magic damage component.  Second, it does magic damage through a beast attack that works like a stone-thrower.  This means that I don't need to worry about clumsily and obviously re-orienting a unit to be able to strike at ethereal targets (as I would have to do with Yhetties), I can just place the damage where I want to.  AND due to the funky breath weapon rules the TT stone thrower can't even suffer a misfire, making it about as safe a secondary war machine as you can get... I can always be sure I keep my position in the battle-line.  Plus, a magic damaging template should only need a few hits to knock most ethereal units down to manageable wounds, if not destroying them.  I do already own a thundertusk, I haven't put him together yet.  I may try and add him in next week if I can get it put together this weekend.


Several of my friends often take me to task for playing ranged units so poorly.  Why not just play demons or vampire counts and remove the range choices entirely?  This game was another lackluster example of me misplaying a ranged advantage I paid precious points for.  I like having ranged as an option... but such an expensive option in this game.  Look, my leadbelchers made their points back in hand to hand against a skeleton/banshee unit, against wolves, and against crypthorrors.  I played them like just another hand to hand unit after about turn 2.  My cannons?  The only redeeming part of the ironblasters this game is the one that got a charge in to kill the terror bat.  As I have seen over 8 full games and three practice games now with this army, those ironblasters just do better for me in hand to hand than in shooting.  Is that because of how the unit is designed, or because of how I utilize them?


That is a lot for me to work on for next week.  Maybe at some point I will learn to play this game.

Wow, you are so hard on yourself! You made some mistakes but also some brilliant moves. 

This was also one of the best batreps I've ever read. Thanks for all the time you spent in writing this.  Have a gnob!

Yes, your tactical analysis is great and very insightful.  Definitely worth a gnoblar.  Just wait until you're up-to-date on 8th rules... 

For instance, when actually performing the charge move, you are allowed to ignore the 1 inch of separation between units.  So your MFC could have charged that 2nd turn.

Good Bat-Rep I def enjoyed reading it.

Yesterday I played against Ethereal for the first time and had an entire block of IG plus the BSB stuck because I had not a single magic weapon (as i took the Run Maw Standard.)

Regardless in the end you won and hopefully got a better understanding of the tactics to use next time

i think that the only thing you should take away from that game is to read the rules a bit better as 8th is almost a different game. A lot of the rules seem to be counter intuitive compared to the older rules. i prefer 6th and 7th ed but thats me.

a good rule is to try and have a cheap magic wepon in  case you meet ethereals or else you are boned.

I'm not certain about how the MF, IB and Wolf situation looked on the table but:
1. Charging units ignore the 1" apart rule.
2. If the charging unit is unable to close the door, but still make contact with the charged unit (in the correct zone), the charged unit will close the door (if able, otherwise the charge still fails).

Edit: Just noticed the threadomancy.

Awesome  Battle rep buddy. Really enjoyed it. AS to your ranged troubles? You do seem to utilize stuff more in a melee way, but hey man at the end of the day they are still Ogres. Its one of the best parts of leadies, your paying the however much extra more for the gun than the ogre. Use them suckers to get a good flank charge and you will catch your opponent off gaurd EASILY. No one ever expect a charge from RANGED stuff, and as you know already leadies in combat are no chumps. And i see our ironblaster a lot like chaos's hellcannon. Play it as a cannon or as a beat your face in monster, neither option is the wrong one.   Good luck in future games bud

That is an awesome read and well thought out analysis.

You might not feel like you played the best but you thought on the spot and came out with a win, that deserves merit by itself.

I'm not sure if the Thundertusk has magical attacks? If so I have been playing it wrong and need to do more analysis myself.

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Snizzle - I'm afraid in the end the Thundertusk has no magical option.  I thought the Sphere of Frost-Wreathed Ice was magical for some reason when I was new with the book.  It is sadly not the case. 

Ethereal heavy armies are just really tough for ogres to take out ever.

One thing that nobody seems to have pointed out is that, because all of your units cause Fear, they are in fact immune to it. Unless whatever was going to cause you to take a Fear test had Terror, of course.