Ogre Almanac Weekly Discussion #2: Ogre Environment

To best understand Ogres, we need to understand where they live.

Begining topics of conversation:
~The Mountains of Mourne are a vast and complex eco-system... sure it all ends up inside an ogre in the end, but what exactly is out there?  What species of flora and fauna exist, and what is their relationship to one another?  How do the highlands and lowlands differ?
~Ogre encampments are likely sprawling filthy affairs, but beyond that how are they?  How is the ogre 'home base' organized?  How about the more mobile hunting camps?
~While the rest of the world might want them to stay at home, Ogres love to travel!  Where else are Ogres living, and how are they living while they are there?  Mercenaries?  The Northern Wastes?  Elsewhere?

While Ogres can be quite nomadic in their search for employment, they don't seem to be so in their general day-to-day existence. A tribe seems to have a 'home', broadly speaking.
I would expect that, like most tribal human cultures, Ogre tribes have a region that is referred to as home, and they will migrate around that area as they exhaust the food sources of each camp location.

I would conjecture that Greasus (and possibly several of the larger tribes) are beginning to make the transition into civilisation. There would be a permanent camp, which is supplied by roving 'satellite' groups of Ogres (warband-scale in numbers).

I would also suggest that the more a particular Tyrant relies on anything other than sheer brute force to maintain his authority, the more likely the tribe would be to have a permanent home. Lack of mobility enhances the ability to maintain an infrastructure, which is necessary in such cases. This would perhaps be the situation in, for example, the tribe of Shrewd Fulg, who maintains his authority over his tribe by maintaining an atmosphere of terror. Perhaps the tribe lives in caves that are joined to the caves of Clan Moulder.

It is mentioned in the Empire fluff that there is a large Ogre population in the Middle Mountains in Ostland. As such, there is a high proportion of Ogres employed by the State armies of provinces such as Ostland, Hochland and Nordland (and potentially even as far as Ostermark).

I'll give some thought to ecology, and comparative population based on latitude, and post again tomorrow.

Day to day life I see this as well, but I do think Ogres have a base camp that is returned to... sacrificial pits leading to huge cave complexes where gorgers dwell seems to be kind of a perminent structure.  Likewise many Tyrants need a 'cave' to chain Slave Giants in, amongst other personal uses I'd wager.  While most of the time is spent in smaller camps, I'd guess traveling as a monstly complete tribe, setting up a camp, and then 'dispersing' within a day or so travel time from there until the area is depopulated of viable food sources... somewhere to return to, to keep inedible trophies of past victories, feast, hold religious ceremonies, and to serve as a cultural and perhaps even physical 'center' of a tribe's territory exists on some defendable mountainside for most if not all tribes.

Talking about base camps and permanent structures, this would be an opportune moment to write the Stronghold into the Ogre background I think

My vision of the Stronghold is that it was once a great northerly fortress of the Sky Titans, long ago toppled by the coming of the Ogres to the region during the Great Migration.  It now forms a focal point for trade, feasting, worship (the mountain itself has been named 'Maw's Tooth' and is deemed to be a sacred place), and it also acts as a common mating ground for the neighbouring Tribes. In times of war the Stronghold becomes a central place for discussion and coordination between allied Tyrants.
Many Tribal tents stand outside the gates of the Stronghold, and beyond these Ogre tents is a vast Gnoblar shanty town, where thousands of Gnoblar slaves and pets dwell as their masters go about their business.
The deepest, darkest depths of the Stronghold are protected from assault by the likes of Skaven, Goblins etc by the hundreds of Gorgers that prowl the pitch-black caverns and corridors.

So basically you've got the wealthiest and most powerful Ogres living within the top levels of the Stronghold, Gorgers are thrown into the pits beneath their feet, Tribal tents are set up in a prominent area close to the Stronghold gates, while the Gnoblar shanty town forms the outskirts of the settlement.

You can of course see my crude graphical representation of the Ogre Stronghold here: http://www.ogrestronghold.com

Doesn't the Stronghold fluff of a kind of Romanesque Forum (as opposed to a Web forum) kind of conflict with the idea of Greasus emerging comparatively recently and (for the first time, as I understand it) forcing some kind of cooperation between the Tribes?

If the Stronghold fluff is to hold up, I suspect it needs to be incorporated into Greasus's fluff (ie: it needs to be a part of his direct empire). It would work as a collaborative and consultative communication point between the leading Ogres of the day, insofar as Greasus agrees with them.


On permanence:
I agree that there would be permanent camps set up, I would just expect that the tribe is not always there. They would travel around seasonally depending on what was growing at which location they frequented. This gives their natural habitat a chance to grow back. Ogres most likely fit into the ecology as a kind of fertiliser - Ogres eating everything and defecating (most likely all over the ground) will aid the growth of new plant life.
An upshot of the Ogres' catholic approach to food sources is that the flora will be much more diverse than in any other habituated area of the Old World. Because the Ogres will eat anything, concepts such as 'weed' and 'poison' aren't relevant. The Ogres wouldn't try to encourage the growth of certain types of plantlife over any other.


Ecology:
It can be safely assumed that the weather gets more tropical as you move further South throughout the Ogre Kingdoms. Now that greenskins are fungi, it makes sense that the little shrooms grow down South in the more tepid Gnoblar Country. It would follow that the more North you travel, the less gnoblars would be attendant to a Tribe, as they simply wouldn't like the climate.

Someone who knows more about vegetation and irrigation will be able to confirm or overturn this, but I would think that the area on the East bank of the River Ruin would be some of the most fertile earth, giving rise to much vegetation (it looks like an inverted Nile, plus it has plenty of tributaries). On the West side, however, there is no water whatsoever, so beyond the immediate vicinity of the River, it becomes a desert.

This provides a natural barrier for Ogre migration - they wouldn't wander into a non-vegetated place unless they were going somewhere over the other side of it (like the World's Edge Mountains).


It's worth noting that the Ogres probably have minimal contact with Cathay or Ind. Despite that the Spice Route and Silver Road pass right through the Mountains of Mourn, it is merchants from the West who travel through to trade in Cathay and Ind, rather than vice versa. This has bigger implications for Ogre language and culture, but as these paths form part of the Geography of the area, I thought it was relevant.
One important influence this would have is that the Ogre tribes bordering these areas would perhaps be wealthier (or at least better connected) than those that live far away.

Greasus' Kingdom only forms a small part of the Mountains of Mourn towards the south along the Silver Road (see page 53 of the Ogre book), while the Stronghold is a lot further north than that.  The Stronghold is primarily just a traditional meeting place between the Tribes in the north.

Yes, but page 52 points out that it is Greasus (and, by implication, Greasus alone) that has brought unity to the Ogres.

I'm not suggesting that the Stronghold fluff is inappropriate, more that it should perhaps be a sacred place first and foremost, with everything else following on purely as a consequence of the proximity engendered by numerous pilgrimages by tribes. Page 52 indicates that there is no real precedent for inter-tribe cooperation among the Ogres, and that, rather, this has been inflicted by Greasus.

Then again, read Greasus' fluff on page 78 - it supports the map in that it says he tithes the Kingdoms along the Silver road...

On page 52 it states that he has united Tribes, which he has done, but it is quite misleading in relation to his detailed fluff and the map.  I don't believe all the Tribes in the Mountains of Mourn bow to him by any means - it's a very big place!

Although the point that this has not really happened before still stands.

This isn't in conflict with the general idea of your fluff for the Stronghold, I just think it would be unlikely if the principle purpose of the Stronghold was rooted in any kind of spirit of cooperation among ogre tribes. In this way, I think it needs to be slightly different in intent from its real-world counterpart.

I am, however, 100% in favour of 'officialising' the Stronghold as a location in the WFB world.

I don't think the Ol' lardtyrant greasus controls all the ogre kingdoms. In the map there are plenty of kingdoms outside of his territory. And let's face it, Greasus only wants the richest ogre kingdoms on his side! What use would he have for the Lazarus tribe for instance? What kind of gold could he get from them? Maybe he could obtain some dehabilitating disease, but that's it.

If we put the stronghold in the fluff, we have to have it outside of greasus's kingdom, and give it some other kind of power besides that of gold. It says on our home page that there are always great feasts going around, so why not say that the Stronghold is the center for the great mammoth herds? Power, but not money power to attract Greasus, and a perpetual supply of cheap food to draw ogres together.

Back on topic though...Pauncho, you already know what kinda critters I think live in the mountains. ^^Free slavegiants at the top, then yettis, etc. I imagine that a lot of the near real creatures in the mountains of mourn arelike their earthly counterparts, only more vicious. A fangweasel looks like a weasel, cept bigger, scabbier, and with teeth capable of biting to the bone.

I imagine that both dwarves and scaven, while not living in the mountians, have tunnels that connect to them. How else in the gorger fluff could they wander into other species's cave systems? I imagine they don;t regulery use them or attack out of them though, a steady trickle of dwarves coming out in the middle of  your camp's mawpit would be like a perpetual buffet that comes to you. (insert jokes about the mawpit throwing up yucky dwarves)

I think that ogres live in a large area, and migrate from one end to the other to hunt and let things grow back in the already lived in area. The direct home base though would undoubtably need to be near caves. Large caves, that can fit slavegiants. (at least on their hands and knees) XD There are some illistrations in the army book on what an ogre camp looks like. Imagine a dank stone cave, with bonfires and torches made of animal fat sending smoke up to the high arching roof of the rock ceiling. Prisoners are kept in hanging steel cages that can be raised and lowered from the roof, for more space. In the corners and smaller passages that no ogre could fit into would be nests of straw and old clothes that gnoblars would teem in and out of.

Hygeine is not an issue here, and the floor would be littered with gnoblar droppings, old chewed up bones, and saliva from ogres drooling. The mawpit would be a near vertical hole that the ogres could fight and drop things into, and it would undoubtably be surrounded by logs crudely cut in half to give ogres a good position to watch pit fights.

The walls of the cave would be stained black from soot and crudely painted in the ogre's signs, probably mostly telling about the reining tyrant's great power. The trant himself would have a big chair to sit in, hollowed out of a skull and covered in pelts and furs to make it comfy. Other ogres would sleep on the floor in a big pile on old straw, furs, and gnoblars that didn't move fast enough when the ogres started to yawn.

The slavegiant pit would be far in the back of the cavern, the better to torture the poor thing by depriving it of light and fresh air. I can imagine chains bolted into the walls and floors, and perhaps a half-barrel of dirty water nearby that the giant could drink, and he would get thrown scraps of rotten meat. He would be highly entertaining to the ogres, as he could be poked with spears for amusement.

That's all I can think of for now. I have to paint up around a hundred gnoblars to a 'eavy-metal standard. Expect to see me at your nearest asylum. XD

About Ogres living in places other than the Mountains of Mourn. Firstly Ogres will have a huge impact on an ecosystem that isn't prepared for them. I reckon that of the Mountains survived with the sudden influx of Ogres, only due to the fact that the prey animals are almost as dangerous as the predators, if not more. The Ogres, being unused to Rhinoxen, Sabretusks, Mammoths and Cave Bears to name a few, will have had their numbers kept in check by them early on. Over time the Mountains adapted. However, now that the Ogre population has grown too big, Ogres are once again migrating to new ecosystems that cannot handle them. The introduction of just one foreign species can severely destabilise an ecosystem, especially if that species has no predators in the ecosystem so there is nothing restraining it from elimiating a native prey species. In the real-world-esque ecosystem of the Old World, there is nothing that could really be much of a danger to an Ogre, and as such it is likely an Ogre Tribe entering an ecosystem would cause it to collapse mainly because it wipes out many of the species within the ecosystem, which then causes the rest to starve. This means that Ogres cannot set up permanent homes within the Old World. I expect that even the World's Edge Mountains could not keep a permanent group of Ogres in check. Therefore in the Old World the only way to keep the rapidly growing Ogre populations in check is either by war, or by civilisation. War in the Old World is the main reason Ogres go there and thus many of said Ogres are killed in the battles, being inexperienced in dealing with the like of cannons and heavy cavalry (a thought: those that do return home becoming Leadbelchers and Rhinox Riders in the classic Ogre apeing of alien cultures). As well as this, war is a perfect way of keeping an Ogre fed as he can feed on the corpses of friend or foe after the battle. Also, eventually an Ogre will adopt the culture and customs of a race with which he has surrounded himself (I doubt many females migrate as they're probably kept at home and away from dangerous ideas about being equal with males) and this may include the ability to restrain in appetite (an ability Ogres employed by Halflings must have), and eat like their civilised employers. It is likely that Ogres will become gluttons, employing chefs to prepare the finest possible meals for them. This in turn could lead them to the worship of Slaanesh, as good of pleasure, but that's off the subject. So in conclusion, cvilised Ogres in the Old World fit in the ecosystem on the same level as the race they ape, just with more refined and larger appetites, and only a few eventually acheive this because most of them get killed before they are rich enough to settle down. Before they reach this stage Ogres are carrion eaters on the food chain, seeing as they would largely subsist on the casualties of war.

Rather than the Stronghold being a place where the leaders of ogre tribes come together and form plans, I see it as being a place where ogre tribes gather every few seasons for a variety of other purposes...

Feasting / Religious ceremonies
Bragging
Exchanging females
Trade

etc... etc...

These things really do not require such an unbelievable amount of cooperation.  I imagine more than one score was settled in the shadows of Maw Tooth.  The tribes meet, have a grand feast, have some games, swap some shop (culinary and military), trade for the goods they need and head back out.  Ogres understood trade long before Greasus came to power.  That's why the ogre cave painting for trade depicts a scimitar, rather than a sigil of Greasus's, because ogres have been trading muscle for reward for centuries.

The Stronghold could simply be one of several geographically convenient places for surrounding ogre tribes to meet, and would over time develop a religious significance born of repeated feasting.  It could be another place of pilgrimage for mawseekers, perhaps a traditional rest stop on the way to the Great Maw itself.

As far as Greasus being accepted as Overtyrant by every ogre tribe out there... that is no more believable than thinking that every human in the empire is loyal to Karl Franz.  There will be dissenters without a doubt, and though they might be viewed as rebels by the general populace, there will always be those willing to challenge authority.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that all tribes are 'loyal' to Greasus. Simply that he has been the first to 'unite' any Ogre tribes at all.

Lord_Byron: that is more or less what I'm suggesting for the Stronghold. I'm just wary of making it all seem too civilised.

(Incidentally, the analogy to Karl Franz and the Empire is a poor one, as the entire Empire IS loyal to Karl Franz. There may be dissenters, but not on a province scale. All of the Electors/Burgomeisters are united under Franz. I'm sure there are individual dissenters in Greasus's Kingdom as well, but not on a tribal scale.
To alter your own analogy, not all humans are loyal to Karl Franz, as many of them live outside his Empire - such as Brettonians, Tileans, etc.)

On Greseus:  First, I do think his 'unification' of tribes (even if it is not nearly all the tribes) is unique, the idea of 'Over Tyrant' did not exist before his rise to power.  I also feel (and this is more speculative) that his influance is felt pretty strongly even past his 'official' borders.  This is getting more into a later topic of tribal polotics but I'd wager many ogre tribes outside of Greseus' official borders still toe the line and do alot less infighting than they used to for fear of drawing the attention of the Over Tyrant.  Further north though it is probably business as usual.

On the Stronghold:  I think finding a home for the Stronghold in this project is a great idea.  I am sure that several 'centers' of ogre culture, where tribes meet in semi-neutral settings to ritually work out disputes, feast, trade goods gnoblers and females, etc.  I also picture Butchers getting together during this time and working out alot of 'secret deals' that run alot of intertribal relations behind the scenes.  The army book mentions Fire Mouth as such a center, and I'm sure Greseus' 'home base' probably serves a similar function.  There is no reason that more of these cultural centers are not scattered throughout the mountains... and we have the Stronghold.

On the Environment:  Strikegore had an excellent writeup of the Biosphere of the Mountain of Mourn on our prelimenary thread, which I hope he will repost here *nudge* to get conversation going over that as well.

On Ogres Elsewhere:  Actual Ogre tribes... with Tyrants and females... I only see really existing in the Mountains of Mourn and the Chaos Wastes.  I can see very large mercenary and perminent 'ogre towns' in various human cities and maybe out in the wilderness elsewhere, maybe even with defacto rulers called Tyrants, but I think the effects of a full functioning tribe out there would be noticed by someone and causing more trouble than we have word about.  The only other place I can see ogres existing in any numbers is north of Cathay... ogres could have fled that way just as easily as they fled into the Mountains of Mourn, pressed into hobgoblin territory and forged little empires there as well.  Society would have to be different, hobgoblins replacing gnoblers perhaps and raiding Cathay instead of doing mercenary work for wanderlust struck males.  That land up there is pretty chaos-y though, so maybe those tribes are chaos ogre tribes instead... alot of the historical 'Oni' type statues from China and Japan seem like they could be Chaos Ogres pretty easily, so it isn't much of a jump to think of ogres running solo around Cathay and Nippon and Ind.

The makeup of hunting camps:  The traveling hunting camps I see as having next to nothing... ogres of prominence (Tyrant, Butcher, maybe Bruisers) probably demand some sort of 'dwelling' as a status symbol, and maybe females nursing very young whelps need a bit of shelter.  Large hide tent/yurt constructs set up by tent-gnoblers seem appropriate.  Other than that, I see ogres perfectly comfortable sleeping on the ground with no cover, or maybe a big hide or two if hunting in the colder highlands.  Ogres are big heat generating and insulated things... and I can see them helping these traits out by sleeping in big piles with the ogres in there little friend/family group.  Gnoblers probably need a little more shelter than that, but anything tent like would get eaten so I'm guessing that Gnoblers following a hunting party are pretty good at finding little hidey-holes or digging small burrows out quickly. 

The other structure I can picture in a temporary camp is a sacrifice pit... a little stake surrounded maw pit wouldn't be hard to dig out and Maw worship seems to be the kind that might demand a piece of each successful hunt for good luck.  These could either be placed around existing pit openings or dug out by gnobler slaves.  These would serve as good 'markers' for hunting camps, like fire pits are used to mark good camping spots.  They could also be adorned with tribal markers, used as a way for tribes to mark hunting lands as belonging to them.  I think that is about all that is needed for a good hunting camp, throw in a few bonfires and we are set.

Home Base:  Home base needs a bit more in it...
Tyrants need a perminent structure, holding which would be one of the many status symbols of Tyranthood... the cave would hold a 'throne', the Tyrant's personal living quarters, and a place for trophies of the tribe (including slave giants, which are functionally status trophies first and help in war second).  It might also contain smaller burrows for servant Gnoblers.  The usual form this building would take is a large and prominent cave, though some Tyrants use ruins from skytitan castles instead, and it isn't inconsievable that Ogres and Gnoblers could be forced to build a Tyrant a lodge from stone and maybe timber on an otherwise good base camp site that doesn't possess a natural Tyrant home.

Bruisers, and maybe other prominent ogres (unit champions?), might have individual homes too... though obviously less extravagent and probably little more than an individual sleeping place, status concious ogres would demand something like this I would think.  Again these are probably caves if available, and large tents or lodges if not.

I picture Butchers and Slaughtermasters living somewhat away from the main camp, as many tribal cultures have their 'medicine men' seperate from tribal life both culturally and physically.  This serves the dual purpose of 'protecting' the tribe from the percieved dangerous stuff that those kinds of people are thought to be doing; and perhaps more importantly lets them serve as better advisors to the tribal leaders from an 'outside' perspective instead of getting involved in tribal politics.  Butcher dens would be the place where Butchers store their reagent foods, keep their cooking tools, and are probably also the location of the ovens and other places of food preperation.  Any excess food the tribe has is also likely stored here for preperation, though it can't last long in face of ogrish appetites.  Additionally they would serve as training grounds for apprentice Butchers under an elder Butcher or Slaughtermaster, and so would need enough room to house and provide tools for all of the tribes Butchers and any apprentices they may have.

All other ogres I picture having more or less demarcated 'living areas' in family group clusters or warrior lodges.  If available, these may be smaller caves or cobbled together lodges but more often (especially for lower status ogres) are simple hide yurts or simple perminent tents on wooden or flat stone bases... or climate permitting just a sallow or rise in the ground with a fire pit in the middle.  Among males, these would be seperated by smaller groups with in the tribes: Ironguts one place, bands of bulls who are friends family or hunting companions another, maneaters who fought together in a third.  These areas could serve as places to sleep and congregate as well as a place to 'keep' stuff belonging to individual ogres: weapons and armor when not in use, banners, etc.  Maneater encampments are probably particularly extravagent... bringing home traditions and objects from the culture they identified with in their mercenary days, maneaters may construct crude replications (or haul back from where they served) toilets, baths, and other more 'civilized' accoutraments.  These would be placed again by status: closer to the Tyrant's cave and in 'better' spots with better accomidations for ogres with more social status... perhaps a choice living area is a good thing to have a pit-fight over.

Females, with less cultural imperative to keep themselves seperate in status and strength concious ways, would live more communally... perhaps in one large cave or lodge with all the females and infants cohabitating, or a close cluster of caves and tents serving a similar purpose.  Placement could go one of two ways: either it could be placed next to and perhaps attached to the Tyrant's lair, allowing the Tyrant easy access to his mating rights... or it could be placed intentionally seperate, on opposite ends of a communal space to prevent any 'unsanctioned mating' ideas from Ogres who havn't earned that right.  I would guess that most tribes do it one way or the other, but I don't have much idea as to which... thoughts?

Seperate from the living area there is also likely a communal area.  Pits for pitfighting would be here, as well as the sacrificial Maw Pit.  Ogre fluff mentions a feasting hall, which may or may not be an enclosed structure (again large cave, constructed lodge, or enormous tent) capable of housing all the Ogres of the tribe (or at least all the male ogres, females holding an almost seperate culture from males), where feasts are held very loud and badly renditioned songs are sun, and maneaters can have a capitive audiance for their long, boring, and munchausianly exagerated stories.  This hall is where a tribe is a tribe, a place of unity in an otherwise fractious and agressive tribal structure... a comradary that is only facilitated by abundant food and alchohol.  Even members of the tribe who are normally outsiders, hunters and butchers for example, are brought into the tribe during feasting.  Still, seating positions and the order in which food is served is a consant reminder of status and strength even in this place.

I see very little need for other Ogrish structures, which would be littered with scrap and bone too large to eat and little else.  The only other structures I can imagine might be a dung pit... ogres eat so much that the amount of waste produced has to be enormous.  While ogres themselves probably don't mind too much, it is a general health concern even for the constitutionally robust ogres to leave that stuff around breeding bacteria.  Each camp or group of camps probably has a place to do that sort of business, and poo-gnoblers have the uneviable job of hauling it dayly away from camp (either to be buried somewhere, thrown in a random pit, or perhaps dumped in a communal and terrifying cesspool somewhere away from and downwind of camp).

Another potential thing needed in camp would be craft areas.  There hasn't been much discussion of how much craftsmanship is actually done by ogres... material culture isn't a big deal and ogres are portrayed as having some basic craftsmanship either inborn or taught young to each ogre... enough to build a club in any case, and I would extend that to be enough to cobble together a tent from crudely tanned hides (tanned by gnoblers of course). 

The only things we really see that have to be manufactured skillfully in ogre camps are weapons, gutplates, pants, and shoes.  Pants can be sewn together from caputred cloth or hide by gnoblers... but ogre weapons gutplates and the metal plates on their shoes are a bit big to expect gnoblers to be forging them.  While it is concievable that all the weapons are 'accumulated' by the tribe by returning maneaters, and gutplates can be often made from hide instead of metal... I still suspect a small number of ogre bulls are trained as blacksmiths; making the tribes weapons, shoe plates, and some gut plates as well as maintaining such goods.  A fair amount of the construction plates in making clubs also seem to be metal craft, so a blacksmith role would be important here as well. 

Ogre smiths, as one of the few ogres who are 'vital' to the tribe in any meaninful way, would be accorded much status and be good candidates for Ironguts or Bruisers.  As a side effect of this, a forge and anvil of some kind would also need to be present at camp, probably at the home base of the ogre smith or smiths who uses it, and tended by forge gnoblers who keep the fire hot.

That covers what ogres will need, but gnoblers exist in huge numbers.  If there are cave networks supporting them (or ground soil capable of building burrows in I guess) gnoblers live within and under the ogre camp.  In fact, since the vast majority of the tribe is often 'away' hunting most of the time the camp would be a gnobler base instead of an ogre one: the fact that they have to go into hiding a few weeks at a time when the ogres return to feast and rest is just an inconviniance.  In places where gnoblers cannot go underground for whatever reason, I would guess the gnoblers directly serving ogres set up little camps near the ogres they serve and the rest of the tribe construct a shanty town nearby but seperate from the main ogre camp. 

Unlike ogres, who could survive just fine sleeping in big heaps out in the open with little discomfort, gnoblers almost certianally need shelter from the cold of the mountains and thus even when ogres are sleeping out in the open the gnoblers are building little tents and cabins to huddle into.  Stealing fire from the ogres to keep heat in the tents will help as well.  Of course none of these structures could be very perminent... one hungry, bored, or just unperceptive ogre wandering around in gnobler camps would probably destroy the whole place, so things have to be able to be reconstructed quickly.

On Ogres in the Chaos Wastes, I can see them surviving there, as there are enough monsters there to keep their numbers under control.

OK, firstly the things I disagree about permanent camps in the wilderness. It is safe to say that most Ogres are mercenaries in the Old World. Now I can picture Ogre bands leading a nomadic existence round hiring hotspots like Tilea and the Border Princes, but that would only go on for about a month or so because having Ogre mercenaries fighting for them would be a must to any ambitious Tilean or Border Princeling. It is quite likely that some Ogres will band together and form Companies (like RoR) but they will spend most of their time travelling with armies. Finally, referring to my previous point, I would go against any permanent Ogre camp in the wilderness as it would completely destroy a habitat, causing the Ogres there to starve.

Now Ogre quarters in Empire, Tilean or Border Prince cities (Brettonnians would try to kill the Ogre on sight) are plausible. But they wouldn't be towns. The reason for this is that no Empire, Tilean or Border Prince ruler would ever let a large population of Ogres develop in his city, firstly because of the danger it poses to his human, Dwarf, Elf etc. subjects (who won't want the risk of being Ogre food), secondly because of the danger it poses to himself: all it takes is for one rival to make a better offer to the Ogres than he did and suddenly he has a large and hostile group of fantastic warriors inside his walls, and thirdly because the Gnoblars following the Ogres would prove an unshakeable nuisance as some Ogres may want to protect a thieving Gnobbo and there's not much a ruler can do in that case that will punish the Gnoblar and not antagonise his mercenaries.

However, a new idea occurrs. Suppose certain bodies of organisation grow up, such as trading consortiums or bodyguard or bounty hunter agencies. These would be headed by humans who would employ the Ogres, handle all the business side of things, and make sure the Ogres get enough out of it to remain loyal. One thing I can imagine is an Ogre Bouncer agency, hiring out to pubs and bars and thus keeping down brawls, while the Ogre gets paid in alcohol (though a drunk Ogre would be a terrible thing to encounter on a dark night).

So Pauncho, do I have your agreement?