Are 4 Rhinox Viable?

Just wondering what the consensus would be. Since the Forge World Rhinox Riders are 1+, and my games are usually played at 3K points, would a unit of four be feasible? Or does the cost/benefit ratio skew too much to the cost side? Three charging Rhinox are scary.... Four would be horrifically scary!   

To be honest, it probably would be a wee bit over the top, I can't realistically see much in 3k points that 3 Rhinoxen wouldn't happily steamroll over, barring the most obscene Chosenstars.

Four is so overkill that just packing them up on the table will add serious fart stains in your opponents underwear.

Just saying...

Of course, 4 does allow you to lose one and still be at full fighting capacity.  Considering at 3000 pts all the enemy can throw at you...I'd say it's not always necessary but entirely feasible.

How do the rules for Rhinox compare to Mournfangs?
I have 9 FW Rhinox riders and use them as substitute Mournfangs for normal army use.
(I've only just got the last 3 so have only used 2 units of 3 so far! )

HG

increased tougness, increased armoursave, maneater rider, double the cost.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/Rhinox.pdf

How do the rules for Rhinox compare to Mournfangs?

Rhinox make mournfangs look average lol   bit on price side tho 345points for 3 with heavy armour and ironfist giveing a 1+ AS tho

there maneaters on bull Bhinox's whats not to love haha

have a look
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/Rhinox.pdf

Thanks guys, didn't know they were still game allowable with the advent of Mournfangs!!
And yeah, they're really good!
LOL

HG

I forget, does the RR use the riders toughness or the mounts?  I'm pretty sure you use the mounts wounds but forget if it's the same with regards to the toughness.  Also, I think the frenzy only applies to the mount right?

You are right about the toughness, I got confused with the increase in wounds. Frenzy seems to apply to all parts of the model, so both rider and mount should get an extra attack.

Yeah, you use the Rider's toughness. With Wounds you use whichever is higher.

So the T5 on the Rhinox only comes into play if they take a Toughness test(as that says you use whichever part of the model has the highest)


RR are better mournfangs, but they pay for it. I think they are best run singly kinda like Chariots. That keeps them affordable.

You give them 1+ armor save and make the model a champion. They can't parry because of Frenzy but the 1+ armor makes up for that. And you have +1A for both rider and mount. D3+1 Str5 impact hits, 5 Str5 attacks from the mount and 6 Str5 attacks from the Thunderlord plus Stomp.

Of course it costs 125 points.

Its basically D3+1 Str5 impact hits, 11 Str5 attacks, 4 wounds, 1+ armor, Stubborn, ItP, and Str5 Stomp for 125 points

VS

2D3 Str5 impact hits, 8 Str5 attacks, 6 Str4 attacks, 6 wounds, 2+ armor/6+ parry, and 2 Str5 stomps for 15 more points.

So its basically a wound and impact hit trade off for a better armor save, strength boost(to rider) and Stubborn. Frenzy is a double edged sword so thats mostly a wash, especially on only Ld8.

Better WS and Initiative on the rider too.  I'd also consider the Ld banner to give them a good Ld 9.  Probably wouldn't since I'd give it to another unit instead and the unit already has stubborn, but it does mitigate the frenzy better.

I'd also add that the prospect of an AHW is intriguing, especially if you're going to run it as a single model (a la chariot).  The shield doesn't provide the parry save so you lose half the benefit of the iron fist, 1+ armor has no additional benefits against str 3 weapons, and you're biggest threat (cannons) don't care how high your armor is.  On the other hand, an AHW makes use of the models special rule, takes advantage of the better WS & I, and you are still left with a 2+ save.  Also, if using the model as a chariot support, I want the extra attack.  Here's an example:

Enemy unit is in combat with ogre bulls.  RR charges flank.  In choosing which unit to allocate attacks, the enemy is most likely going to choose the bulls since it has a better chance to get wounds on the enemy with the poorer AS.  The few attacks that have to be directed at the RR are not likely to get through due to WS 4, T 4, and armor.  As such, a 1+ armor save is most likely wasted, whereas the +1 attack is not.  Of course, it might just be best to equip that single model with a brace of pistols so you can have the +1 attack, a shooting attack, a stand and shoot option, and would take advantage of the BS 4 (for only 3 more pts than a AHW).

Question, if a RR has both a brace of pistols and an IF, do they get to choose which they use?  Can the model shoot during the shooting phase, and then use the 1+ armor if shot at?  Do they nominate whether to use the AHW or IF during each round of combat?  I seem to recall some discussion of models using special weapons over normal weaons; does this change if the model has frenzy and can't use the parry save special rule?

Yeah, you use the Rider's toughness. With Wounds you use whichever is higher.

So the T5 on the Rhinox only comes into play if they take a Toughness test(as that says you use whichever part of the model has the highest)


RR are better mournfangs, but they pay for it. I think they are best run singly kinda like Chariots. That keeps them affordable.

You give them 1+ armor save and make the model a champion. They can't parry because of Frenzy but the 1+ armor makes up for that. And you have +1A for both rider and mount. D3+1 Str5 impact hits, 5 Str5 attacks from the mount and 6 Str5 attacks from the Thunderlord plus Stomp.

Of course it costs 125 points.

Its basically D3+1 Str5 impact hits, 11 Str5 attacks, 4 wounds, 1+ armor, Stubborn, ItP, and Str5 Stomp for 125 points

VS

2D3 Str5 impact hits, 8 Str5 attacks, 6 Str4 attacks, 6 wounds, 2+ armor/6+ parry, and 2 Str5 stomps for 15 more points.

So its basically a wound and impact hit trade off for a better armor save, strength boost(to rider) and Stubborn. Frenzy is a double edged sword so thats mostly a wash, especially on only Ld8.

Are you sure you use the toughness of the rider? I'm pretty sure (Not completely sure mind you) that you use the higher toughness between the two. Like I said, I could be wrong and as I say it it sounds wrong haha.

I had this mix-up a few months back. Monstrous Cavalry uses the rider's Toughness, the Wounds are whichever's higher.

I was told you use the Mounts toughness!
You do with Mournfangs anyway, why wouldn't you with their bigger brothers?
Is there BRB Page reference for riders toughness on cavalry?

HG

I was told you use the Mounts toughness!
You do with Mournfangs anyway, why wouldn't you with their bigger brothers?
Is there BRB Page reference for riders toughness on cavalry?

HG

You do not use the mount's Toughness with Mournfang (although it happens to be the same as the rider's Toughness).

Per the BRB, pg 82 - Regarding Cavalry: "The mount's Wounds and Toughness are never used. We assume that the enemy always strikes at the rider, so his Wounds and Toughness are used instead - if the rider is slain, we treat the mount as having fled the battle or been slain alongside its master."

Per the BRB, pg 83 - Regarding Monstrous Cavalry:  "All the cavalry rules apply to monstrous cavalry, with one exception — monstrous cavalry always use the highest Wounds characteristic the model has, rather than automatically using the rider's — indeed, this will normally mean that the model uses the mount's Wounds characteristic."

So for Mournfang Cavalry and for Rhinox Riders, you whichever has the higher Wounds characteristic on the split profile, but you always use the rider's Toughness.

-Snark

Thanks mate, I've only recently started playing WFB and am not very good with the BRB yet!

Much appreciated!

HG