I'm bringing ogre's back.... Yeah!

Ok cheesy subject aside, I need some help with Ogres. I use to play them when they first came out back in sixth edition. Wow what a difference two editions make, leadbleches that don't explode, chariot cannons (tanks if you ask me), Gnoblar that don't bicker, and Calvary... Awesome. All the things that I wish they had in the beginning. I've been buying some of the new models to supplement my existing force, I bought some mournfang and an iron blaster, great units, I need help. I don't know what the new tactics are, I don't know if the huge monsters are worth the point cost or anything. I play with my friends, and find that even below 2000 points they are hurting against swarm armies (duh), but that could just be me. I'd love to discuss the new ogre kingdoms tactics. I have been reading that Tyrants are amazing and a must have, but what about hunters, butchers, and especially Fire bellies.

First off, welcome back! To go over each of your individual points:

Out of the huge monsters, the Thundertusk is considered the better one. The Stonehorn is far from bad, he's just a bit one-dimensional, frenzied, and losing his standard attacks when he charges is a bit annoying. The Thundertusk brings a lot more to the table with his aura ability, and whilst he's not quite as good in combat he's pretty respectable and has some decent complimentary shooting.

Tyrants are also still good, but the loss of the Tenderiser and the fact that there are new options for taking down big stuff (read: Ironblasters) means he ain't what he used to be. More importantly, a level 4 Slaughtermaster brings much greater benefits to the army, what with his buffs, magic defence and general tankiness. The lower Ld is easily solved by a Standard of Discipline on some Ironguts, so he's by far the most popular choice - you'll discover that most lists on this site include a Slaughtermaster as the very first decision.

Hunters are rather poor I'm afraid, They don't really do anything that the other characters can't, and whilst they can ride a Stonehorn it takes up far too many precious character points.

Butchers are pretty good, and they're absolutely necessary if you want to take a lore other than that of the Great Maw on a Slaughtermaster (this what people mean when they mention the 'Butcher tax'). They're pretty much a no-frills attached lvl 2 caster except they're a lot tougher than most.

Firebellies are awesome. They bring with them a lore that's unique within the army and help to deal with regeneration, which we can sometimes struggle to get around. The breath weapon is fantastic and can help to turn the tide of certain combats.

For general tactics, just have a good look round. Glancing at the lists of big-hitters like Wildcard and Gutlord Inquisitor will give you some good ideas as to what the best units and load-outs are in the book, but don't be afraid to experiment.

Out of the huge monsters, the Thundertusk is considered the better one. The Stonehorn is far from bad, he's just a bit one-dimensional, frenzied, and losing his standard attacks when he charges is a bit annoying. The Thundertusk brings a lot more to the table with his aura ability, and whilst he's not quite as good in combat he's pretty respectable and has some decent complimentary shooting.

I'd just like to point out that this view is far from universal, but that stated, I don't particularly care for either monster.  Were I forced to take one, though, I'd much rather have the Stonehorn over the Thundertusk.

The more I read about the monsters the less I want to field them. I feel like its a "Kill this PLEASE!" sign which isn't a bad thing I suppose, but for the points I'd rather field something else.

Butcher tax huh? I take it that means the lore of the great maw isn't all that good compared to the other ones they have access too.  Which one is the best for the slaughtermaster, or is it a situational choice?

Yeah I bought a hunter back in the day, and found it (broke) so now I'm not too upset about it.

IMO all the lores have something going for them. While the one seems more destructive/usefull than the other, a comparison isn't easy to make. I think in order to get the most out of each lore, the army has to fit the caster. An army lead by a death SM focusses on supportdecapitation, a beastcaster is probably served well by several cheap coopcaster (as to make the most of the buffs), a heavenscaster is good support for a shooty army etc. Since our casters are very expensive, I think it smart to think carefully about synergy between army and characters.

The more I read about the monsters the less I want to field them. I feel like its a "Kill this PLEASE!" sign which isn't a bad thing I suppose, but for the points I'd rather field something else.

This can be a good thing though. If the enemy spends a couple of turns trying to take it down then your Mounrfangs/Ironguts/Bulls arrive at nice full strength and then proceed to do what Ogres do best.

The more I read about the monsters the less I want to field them. I feel like its a "Kill this PLEASE!" sign which isn't a bad thing I suppose, but for the points I'd rather field something else.

They're really not that bad, the Thundertusk in particular shows up in at least one tournament-winning list, it's just that they're not always the most absolutely optimal choice, especially alongside the excellent Ironblaster. If you like the models, give 'em a try.

Butcher tax huh? I take it that means the lore of the great maw isn't all that good compared to the other ones they have access too.

Not by any means - in fact plenty of people (including me) consider it the best all-round lore in the list. The other lores are also pretty good and allow for a bit more variety and some interesting tactics though, which is why you might see some people complain about the tax.

Myself I go lvl 4 Maw and a lvl 2 something else. experimenting with the varous types

My only problem with Maw is that by the time I throw +1 T and Regeneration I don't have any dice for my Firebelly.

But thats ok because the Firebelly is far more then a simple Fire caster. With Flaming attacks and a Breath Weapon he's more of a combat character that can also cast some magic.

He is also more useful in the first couple turns of the game when he can soften the enemy up with Fireballs. Once he's in combat he won't be casting much, which is when your Gutmagic takes over. Unless he rolled up Flaming Sword of Ruin, in which case he will be casting in combat.


The Stonehorn is actually, IMO, the better of our 2 monsters. Both being big targets they will get shot at, the difference is that the Stonehorn is VERY survivable whereas the Thundertusk is not. Halving Multiple Wounds means that even at the worst it is going to take 2 cannonballs to bring him down and he could last alot longer. T6 and a 4+ armor also means he can survive low str shooting too.

Once he gets to combat, fairly likely, he is a good support unit for a unit of Ogres as he can charge in and rack up combat resolution and help you win the fight that much sooner. 3D3 Str6 impact hits plus 4 rider attacks and Thunderstomp can equal alot of dead enemies. He is Frenzied so you need to keep him close to the General but he can pay off big.

The Thundertusk can as well but it takes more attention to positioning to get the most out of him and his Aura.

I'll have to do some experimenting with all of this information, thank you all. I see you play each other on the forum, going to try and figure that out.

Those silly gnoblars don't know how to act!



Yeah!




Take it to the Great Maw!

I feel like its a "Kill this PLEASE!" sign which isn't a bad thing I suppose, but for the points I'd rather field something else.

I seldom get this - it must be from the 7th mindset because I rather face a raging stornhorn than a bunch of angry Ironguts.

I feel like its a "Kill this PLEASE!" sign which isn't a bad thing I suppose, but for the points I'd rather field something else.

I seldom get this - it must be from the 7th mindset because I rather face a raging stornhorn than a bunch of angry Ironguts.

It is because of the ease of killing it and gaining 250 points for it. At least 1 well placed Cannonball won't kill it, but 2 might. Pit of Shades and other spells can kill it rather quickly as can massed shooting.

It is because of the ease of killing it and gaining 250 points for it. At least 1 well placed Cannonball won't kill it, but 2 might. Pit of Shades and other spells can kill it rather quickly as can massed shooting.

I should have been clearer I think.

Against some armies, like Ogres, the focus on big beasties is almost dumb because you often just get one or two chances to hit with your warmachines etc. before combat. Magic works against several ogres (purple and the boyz) and guns works wonders against T4.

I rather take out guts for the same points than taking out a Stonehorn (as an example).