Hey guys, gorgers work!

Hey guys,

I played a 2500 pts game this Sunday, and I just wanted to voice that in my Menagerie/Zoo list, the Gorgers worked well.

Using the rule Ambushers instead of a shabby Beastman ambush rule means that my Gorger has 2/3 chances of arriving where I want. The other 1/3 is the chance of it not arriving at all. In my Menagerie list I fielded three, and two of them arrived; which is very relevant probability-wise. (When I played Beastmen I only had 1/6 chance of my Gors/ungors arriving on the opponent's table edge, and another 1/6 of them arriving on the "proper" side table edge).

In this case, I am mostly assured of getting a charge at an enemy artillery on turn 3. In today's battlefields which are riddled with terrain, it is sometimes useful to interrupt the turn 3/4 shooting that happens once your big mean ogre units have broken/eaten their first encounters (such as a stonehorn and mournfangs charging and killing an enemy unit on turn 2 or running it down on turn 3 because it was steadfast on turn 2). In these instances, your big mean destruction units are often unaligned with proper targets and ripe for shooting.

By charging backfielders and warmachines on turn 3 with an unbreakable monster, the enemy is locked down in a combat it has very few chances of winning. Toughness 5 means that most warmachine crews will wound it on a 6, or on a 5 on the first combat turn of an orc warmachine (thanks to the choppa rule that gives them str 4). As long as I've got a wound left, I'm staying there and I'm preventing that warmachine from shooting.

And even against dwarf warmachines, they will work. STR 5 vs TO 4 heavy armour is quite good and useful.

So anyways, this was my thread-of-praise for the new Gorgers. In my current opponents' close-combat oriented, support-heavy and artillery-heavy meta, gorgers work and are worth the points.

i don't want to be a debbie downer and down-play Gorgers, because I'm glad they did their job in your game. What I'd like to know is do you think you could have accomplished the same job of at least one Gorger, by having say 3 Sabretusks?

I feel that Gorgers are great, but other things seem to work just as good for less points or are more versitile. It's been my experience that as a warmachine hunter Gorgers are just ok, because whatever they are going to charge in the back field is going to have a free turn of firing against them. However as a rear charger/mini tarpit they are pretty good.

That's my two cents...

i don't want to be a debbie downer and down-play Gorgers, because I'm glad they did their job in your game. What I'd like to know is do you think you could have accomplished the same job of at least one Gorger, by having say 3 Sabretusks? 

I did have three individual sabertusks who served as warmachine hunters and cheap deployment drops. We were playing the 6th scenario and my regular ogres camped the tower (16 models out of the limit of 20). They got beaten by greatswordsmen who rerolled thanks to the warrior priest and I had failed my BSB twice-rolled steadfast ld7 test. They occupied the building and I fled off, panicking a unit of one sabertusk who never rallied. The second  tusk got shot by ten handgunners and the third got beaten by a 10-strong swordsmen detachment who did manage to score two wounds. All in all, since the Empire player was spending ressourced on these small redirectors/annoyers, it was win/win for me since I could choose my fights with my big units.

A free shot at gorgers is no free shot at my mainline units. Also, this doesn't happen if you play against move or fire troops, since if they turn around to fire at you, they moved, thus they can't shoot.

Glad to hear your gorger worked for you.

I enjoy lists where I can attack from any angle, so a gorger is welcome, as are sabretusks. Between those two choices, and leadbelchers, that's the special selection of my choosing.

We were playing the 6th scenario and my regular ogres camped the tower (16 models out of the limit of 20).

Monstrous Infantry cannot be used to occupy the Watchtower at the beginning of the game. Gnoblars are your only recourse.

Issue has never been that gorgers don't work, just that other options we have work better.  The new ambushing rules are certainly an improvement, but still too slow for my preference.  Why take gorgers to charge enemy artillery on turn 3 when an ironblaster can start sniping it on turn 1. 

Granted they have some rearcharge/pinning utility, but how well that works depends on your enemy's army composition.  If they have s3 troops for you to take advantage of it's great, but anything stronger than that will likely bring them down in a turn or two.

I play 3 gorgers in every army list. I placed 4th in a tournament of 40 people last weekend. Why? Sabretusks & Gorgers.

People are afraid of Gorgers, they mess up opponent deployment and are a constant worry, war machines last 2 rounds, 3 at the most (if he gets first turn) and that is something that nothing else in our army can do.

The fact that they can come in from ANY table edge is worth gold, sometimes I take them into the flank, sometimes the rear, it depends on the opponent.

When they come from opponents table edge they can guarantee that units flee of the table (having to run through a gorger) which is also worth a lot.

They can also be used as redirectors and march blockers, kinda like playing another 3 sabretusks but with more options than sabres.


I'm hesitant to leave for a battle without them.

We were playing the 6th scenario and my regular ogres camped the tower (16 models out of the limit of 20).

Monstrous Infantry cannot be used to occupy the Watchtower at the beginning of the game. Gnoblars are your only recourse.

Really?

Issue has never been that gorgers don't work, just that other options we have work better.  The new ambushing rules are certainly an improvement, but still too slow for my preference.  Why take gorgers to charge enemy artillery on turn 3 when an ironblaster can start sniping it on turn 1. 

Why not take sabertusks, gorgers AND ironblasters to attack them, and if your ironblasters are themselves shot to pieces by enemy cannonballs on turn 1 (it happens), then you've got a second and third choice (sabertusks and gorgers).

We were playing the 6th scenario and my regular ogres camped the tower (16 models out of the limit of 20).

Monstrous Infantry cannot be used to occupy the Watchtower at the beginning of the game. Gnoblars are your only recourse.

Really?

Really.

I know that gorgers are not the best war machine hunters - that's why I consider that their secondary role. Here is how I like to use them -

A lot of armies I play like to sit in the back and wait for my ogres to come to them - they want to delay CC as long as possible. You bring in a gorger or 2 behind them on turn 2 it forces them to make a decision:

1. Do continue to wait and then get charged by IGs/Bulls next turn, and butt-charged by a gorger and almost guarantee a lost combat?

2. Do I charge forward (hoping to reach the ogres) and hope to kill enough this turn to negate the nastiness of the gorger butt-charge?

3. Do I turn my archers/crossbows around and hope to roll enough 6s to wound to kill this damn thing? Even though I would likely do more wounds to those IGs or Bulls.

4. Duh... I realease my fanatics and kill that damn gorger no problem.

So - in summary: I find that even a single gorger makes the enemy have to make a tough decision on turn 2/3. And unless the dice rolls are in their favor (or I have made some movement/deployment mistakes) the decision they end up making is usually the lesser of 2 evils.

This quote:

Issue has never been that gorgers don't work, just that other options we have work better.  The new ambushing rules are certainly an improvement, but still too slow for my preference.  Why take gorgers to charge enemy artillery on turn 3 when an ironblaster can start sniping it on turn 1.

Plus the following:

I did have three individual sabertusks who served as warmachine hunters and cheap deployment drops. We were playing the 6th scenario and my regular ogres camped the tower (16 models out of the limit of 20). They got beaten by greatswordsmen who rerolled thanks to the warrior priest and I had failed my BSB twice-rolled steadfast ld7 test. They occupied the building and I fled off, panicking a unit of one sabertusk who never rallied. The second  tusk got shot by ten handgunners and the third got beaten by a 10-strong swordsmen detachment who did manage to score two wounds. All in all, since the Empire player was spending ressourced on these small redirectors/annoyers,

Brings us back to the top of the thread, which was allready a fantastic point to begin with:

In this case, I am mostly assured of getting a charge at an enemy artillery on turn 3. In today's battlefields which are riddled with terrain, it is sometimes useful to interrupt the turn 3/4 shooting that happens once your big mean ogre units have broken/eaten their first encounters (such as a stonehorn and mournfangs charging and killing an enemy unit on turn 2 or running it down on turn 3 because it was steadfast on turn 2). In these instances, your big mean destruction units are often unaligned with proper targets and ripe for shooting.

Spikes makes a most excellent point here, and a refreshing one too. I agree gorgers add a lot to an ogre generals options after the initial charge, and I think we need that when facing any general not doing the "bigger is better" game. Have a gnoblar.

As to the comparison between tusks and gorgers; sabertusks are annoying yes, but they can do a lot of damage when leaving them unattended, in several ways. The gorgers fullfilled a task mentioned in the 3rd quote, and in doing so also earned a lot of points, while keeping their own pointvalue safe off the table and safe in combat on the table, which could have been unreachable ones the opponent got rid of the tusks. For an opponent, getting to the tusks prematurely isn't a matter of gaining 63 VP, its a matter of keeping hundreds of points or your own battle plan safe. I wouldn't say gorgers are a lesser option to sabertusks, I would say they are in high demand versus any player going about their warmachines the smart way.
Also, this goes for any support troops. These kinds of units are not just there to draw attention. They draw attention because they can mess up your game before the real battle starts. They pave the way so to speak (well, a lot of them do) and when played smart, gain you big advantages for the aforementioned big battle. Not paying attention to units that can do that is unwise, and tusks are among those units. Luckily we have gorgers to take over where the tusks left off.