Army List Challenge 4: The Decision

Here is the list from Gop over at Bugman's Brewery:

Runelord, Shield;
Rune of Preservation; Rune of Resistance; Rune of Stone; Master Rune of Balance; Rune of Spellbreaking x2

Thane BSB
Master Rune of Gromril; Rune of Preservation; Rune of Resistance

38 Hammerers
Master Rune of Grungni

40 Dwarf Warriors, GW

20 Quareller Rangers
Musician, GW

Cannon,
Rune of Burning; Rune of Forging; Engineer

Cannon,
Rune of Forging; Engineer

Grudge Thrower
Rune of Accuracy; Rune of Penetrating x2

Organ Gun
 2250 points.



Below are the Ogre lists along with the justifications of their creators. Please give your voice to the best list.

Enkiel's List and Justifications

Against Dwarf, lets face it, magic is not really strong. So Slaughtermaster, Firebelly and Butcher would stay home.

First, i'd look at the weapon. 2 Cannon, a stone thrower and an Organ Gun. My best idea against warmachine, is this; warmachine. 2 Ironblaster can kill at least one Warmachine a turn (if unlucky), or 2 (if lucky). Considering the banner they are using, it could be even worst, as warmachine around the hammerer would get a 5+ wardsave against our cannon. So to counter this, i'd count on 3 unit of Sabertusk, to go after warmachines asap. Since Dwarf are pretty solid, i'd take them in unit of 2.

2 Ironblaster, 340 pts.
3x2 Sabertusk, 126 pts.

Now the Warriors and Rangers. Since both have Great Weapon, it is a personnal choice to go with Bulls. First, because they'll hit first, and second, because they'll get some kind of save, even if wounded on 2+. Since we cannot count on Trollgut or +1 Endurance to save our numbers, something else gotta help. A champion, and 2 character should do the trick.

Some people will wonder, why Ogres instead of Ironguts? Since ironguts would wound on 2+, and negate armor? Simply because with so much Ogre body, you are very likely to remove Steadfast quick, and with the amount of warmachine in front, it would be very risky to go into the fight with smaller units imho.

Both Character rely strickly on armorsave, so a good trick to deal with those would be a Tyrant with ObsidianBlade, negating all armor. Runelord is a WS6 T5 W3 Character, so without armor, he's pretty easy to kill. Thane is the same with only W2.

Unit #1 ;
First Character, the BSB, should be defensive, but not relying at all on Armorsave.
Second Character, the can opener, should be the challenger.
Unit #2 ;
First character, our General, should be unhittable by RnF, so he'll be the guy taking most of the attacks.
Second Character, another defensive one, 4+ Wardsave.

With those 2 block, with a 3 frontage, they'll be steadfast forever, and very hard to reach RnF. Even if they get targetted for a round or two by warmachine, they should be able to survive without ever loosing the Look Out Sir.


12 Ogres (in rank of 3), Full Command, Ironfist, Look Our Gnoblar, 419 pts.
13 Ogres (in rank of 3), Full Command, Ironfist, Look Our Gnoblar, 451 pts.

Tyrant Obsidian Blade, 260 pts.

Tyrant (General), Fencers Blade, Glittering Scale, Talisman of Endurance, 30 pts.

BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Ironcurse Icon, 180 pts.

Bruiser, AHW, Armor of Destiny, 158 pts.

2234 pts

so the list ;
Tyrant Obsidian Blade, 260 pts.
Tyrant (General), Fencers Blade, Glittering Scale, Talisman of Endurance, 30 pts.

BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Ironcurse Icon, 180 pts.
Bruiser, AHW, Armor of Destiny, 158 pts.

12 Ogres (in rank of 3), Full Command, Ironfist, Look Our Gnoblar, 419 pts.
13 Ogres (in rank of 3), Full Command, Ironfist, Look Our Gnoblar, 451 pts.

3x2 Sabertusk, 126 pts.

2 Ironblaster, 340 pts.


Maneater Josh's List and Justifications

Poor stunties and there short stubby legs.

Anyway to the list

I decided that magic would be a possibility against this list because if my limited knowledge of the dwarf codex tells me anything it would have to be I have seen much worse anti-magic.

Slaughtermaster – level 4, GreedFist, Fencers Blades, Iron Curse Icon = 365

Bruiser – BSB, Standard of Discipline, Ironfist, Heavy Armour = 154

Firebelly – Level 1, Seed of Rebirth, Channelling Staff, ADHW = 147

Ogres/Bulls (18) – ADHW, Full Command = 588

Maneaters (15) – 4 ADHW, Full Command, Look-Out Gnoblar, Dragonhide Banner, (Poison, Stubborn) = 843
Characters go here!)

Sabretusk = 21

Sabretusk = 21

Sabretusk = 21

Gorger = 90

2250 exactly

Okay, simple list with one super hard hitting unit of doom and with buffs is near unbeatable in combat so will go towards the hammerers.
A horde of bulls to take down the unit of warriors with a buff or two should manage fine.
Tusks for warmachine hunting and the gorger will follow suit..

I'm not hoping to out deploy the dwarves but I do know my movement will be enough for me to get in the right places, hopefully getting into combat by turn 2 which only allows 1 turn or 2 for shooting depending on who goes first.

Magic wise I should be able to get some spells out, if I can bring the spellbreaker runes out early with trollguts  or +1 toughness, to help migrate shooting

Thanks
Josh


Rothgar13's List and Justifications

I've seen Dwarfs v. Ogres quite a few times at my local group, and the Dwarf player's list is a bit different from this one, but not overly so. Here's what I'd go with:

Iron Jaws - 2,250 points

Core - 723 points:
16 Ironguts, Musician, Standard-Bearer, Standard of Swiftness [Ogre characters go here]

Special - 685 points:
6 Maneaters, Ogre Pistols [Scout, Swiftstride]
3 Mournfang Cavalry, Heavy Armor, Ironfists, Musician, Standard-Bearer, Dragonhide Banner
3 x Sabretusk

Rare - 340 points:
2 x Ironblaster

Heroes - 195 points:
Bruiser, BSB, Great Weapon, Ironcurse Icon, Talisman of Preservation

Lords - 307 points:
Tyrant, Armor of Destiny, Crown of Command, Great Weapon

Grand Total: 2,250 points

Not even going to bother banging my head against the brick wall that is Dwarf anti-magic - Ogres just don't have the amounts of power dice generation that you need to punch through it. Instead, we're going with a big, beefy Gutstar that can smash right through any of his fighting units, especially considering the (rather odd) lack of fighty characters in them. I have enough chaff to gain an edge in deployment, I have a unit of hard-hitting Scouts with guns to threaten him early (not to mention possibly mess with the placement of his Scouts), and my cannons have a good chance of winning the artillery war as they close in. Most of this army is quite fast, and will be in his grill quickly.

Far2Casual's List and Justifications

My try :


1 Lord: 305 Pts.   13.5%
1 Hero: 188 Pts.   8.3%
2 Core Units: 899 Pts.   39.9%
4 Elite Units: 515 Pts.   22.8%
2 Rare Units: 340 Pts.   15.1%


Tyrant, General, HA, Sword of Strife, Ironcurse Icon, Greedy Fist, Enchanted Shield - 305 Pts.

Bruiser, Ironfist, HA, Crown of Command, Luckstone, Dragonhelm, BSB - 188 Pts.

15 Ogres, Handweapon & Ironfist, M, S, C - 510 Pts.
8 Ironguts, M, S, C, Banner of Swiftness - 389 Pts.

3 Mournfang Cavalry, HA, Ironfist, M, S, Dragonhide Banner - 280 Pts.
3 Maneaters, HA, 3 x 2xHw, Scouts, Swift Stride, M, S, Gleaming Pennant - 193 Pts.
1 Sabretusks - 21 Pts.
1 Sabretusks - 21 Pts.

Ironblaster - 170 Pts.
Ironblaster - 170 Pts.

Total: 2247

*******

Most of the things are pretty obvious :

- First, I can't do anything against his magic, and he can shut down mine pretty easily. So I won't even bother investing any points in it, and it will render some of his points useless.
- A good horde of Ogres will shine against T4, 5+ Dwarves striking last. 54A will result in 27 hits, 13.5 wounds, 11 dead. Add 5 more deads with the ogre charge (6 S6 hits), and 2-3 more with stomps (6 S4 hits), that is half on any of his units dead on the first turn, not counting characters, before they even attack ! I also have more bodies to take up the shooting and still deliver the pain.
- My Tyrant is very killy and with 7A, at WS6, S6 striking at I4 he will deliver the pain on those guys too. His Ld9 is much appreciated for Panic tests due to shooting, and his Ironcurse Icon will easily save some Ogres. On the defensive side, he still can count on a WS6, T5, I4 in challenge, and a good 3+/6++ save.
- Then I have a medium unit of Ironguts joined by the BSB to make them Stubborn. I can throw that unit into the Hammerers, deliver the pain while bogging them down while my BSB is alive (WS5, T5, 3+/6++ rerollable once with 4W, he doesn't go down quickly).
- The two Ironblasters will do what they do best : overshoot the ennemy and hunt their warmachines down. Eat some of your own recipe, runts !
- The 3 Mournfangs will be there to put the pression on my opponent, but I bet he will put a lot of shooting into them, so I suppose they won't be that useful. I take 3 instead of 4 to save me some points to put them in the other units. If he ignores them, they will be excellent flankers combined with my Stubborn Ironguts, if he doesn't then there's a lot of other things that close the gap unspoiled.
- 3 Scouting Maneaters with AHW are a nightmare for his Dwarves, as they hit hard, begin the game very close to him and are potentially out of shooting arc of his quarrelers.
- 2 cats are still there to protect the flanks, hunt some warmachines, etc.


BIGBADA's List and Justifications

274   Tyrant 4+ Ward, GW, Ironcurse Amulet
274   Tyrant 4+ Ward Armor, GW
548
183   BSB, 5+ Save, Sword of Striking, Enchanted Shield, HA
339   3 Bruiser HA, IF
522
382   11 Ogres FC
382   11 Ogres FC
764
42   2*Sabertusks
340   2 Ironblasters
9 extra points

This would be a boring ass list to play but it would make short work of the Dwarf list.
1.   Ironblasters play merry with the dwarf war machines.
2.   2 deathstars that will 1 shot the warrior block or the scout block and will win a grinding war against the Hammerers. (1 tyrant and 2 bruisers per block with the ogres in a 3 frontage)
3.   The sabertusks are there to make things difficult for the already slow dwarves.

Unless you get unlucky, this is an easy matchup.

Enkiel gets my vote, I like his list.

I don't actually see any of them doing brilliantly. They are all based around 1 or 2 big units of ogres, overlooking the fact that there are 3 blocks of Dwarfs who on their own are potentially a match for anything that the Ogres can bring. Plus you're liable to lose some of your Ogres on the way in, as there is no way the dwarf player is going to come to you.

Of the ones presented, I'm giving my vote to the one list that hasn't gone down the boring option and removed all magic. Unless you tailor for every game, you will always have a caster in your army - so why leave him out here. You will still need to use it against them despite them being very good at anti-magic. Plus, our spells are more useful now as they will last through the Dwarf shooting phase - War Machines hurt a lot less if you are T5 or can Regenerate!

Anyway, enough nay-saying, as I didn't enter due to being very busy painting ogres for a tournament. I wish I had had time to write a list for this one, I can think of a few different options that would really work. Good luck to all that entered!

Dwarfs are no match in CC to Ogres. No match, at all.

Made a 25 Rangers horde with GW (447 pts) flee when they charged my 10 Bulls + BSB + Firebelly, without even using my breath weapon, on the first turn. I killed 11, he made 7 wounds, broke and was run down. All that, I repeart, without even charging.

Wow, the voting is very close so far. 

There are just two days left to vote, if you haven't already (actually probably till Sunday around noon, as I suspect I'll be gone most of Saturday.)

Congratulations and a Pet Gnoblar go out again to Enkiel for winning Army list challenge 4. My thanks go out again to everyone who entered a list or voted.