New!!!! Rhinox Riders Forge World Rules

Have fun
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/r/Rhinox.pdf

BIG THX Forge World

Now that is bad as all can be I like it. ^^

Lol - Stubborn, ld8, 1+ save, 6+ parry, ridiculous amount of attacks impact hits and frenzy, not to mention T5 4W? Or a 2+ save and GW S7?

They each put out S3+1 S5 impact hits, 4 WS4 S5 hits, 4+1(frenzy) WS3 S5 Hits, and a S5 stomp attacks. That's a maximum of 14 attack per model. What?!!?!

Unit size 1+, it puts a stonehorn to shame.

Steam roller.

These are rather good - pity they are not official

These are rather good - pity they are not official

Yeah, no opponent in their right mind will let you run them.

Never gonna be allowed in any torney I attend!

>Ninja'd

Yeah, you guys have fun trying to convince TOs to let you use these.

Thank goodness for Mournfangs. 

Wow, those are broken as heck.  At some point we all went "well, MF Cav are really, really good but not so good as to be unbalanced..."

The forgeworld RR here take that whole idea and slam it in the face with a giant horn.  Not only are they WS 4 (HUGE improvement on most every non-bruiser in the army), the ogres riding them also get a strength buff, leadership buff, have an extra wound and are automatically STUBBORN.  Add in that their armor save is equal to MF Cav, and they get bonus impact hits, and the ogres have an extra attack (at higher initiative to boot!), and then bonus frenzy attacks to both rider and mount.  To add insult to injury, their BS is one higher than most ogres too, making the thunderlord with BOP one of the best marksmen in the army.

This wouldn't be a huge deal, except for the fact that the points value of these nasties is pretty low in comparison to the upgrades they recieve over MF Cav.  Base 105, add in IF, gets you 110.  A unit of four runs 440, plus a standard bearer w/ DH banner, totalling 500.  As compared to the 340 we pay for the same MF Cav unit, the question is whether the +1WS, +1BS, +1S, +1W, +1I on the Ogres, +1A on the Ogres, +1 Ld, extra impact hits, stubborn, and frenzy are worth 160 points on that unit.  You might quibble with me on that it's a lot of points, and I agree... I just think that the added bonuses are worth far more than a meagre 40 points a model. 

Is there any situation in which I wouldn't make rom for these in a tournament that allowed them?  No, they're far, far, far too good.  The same can't be said of Mournfang Cav, which while make it into nearly every list I write, actually have real competition from other special choices for my points. 

Then again, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe they're right on target (or even overcosted!), and I'm just off my rocker cause its early and I haven't had any caffeine.  Your thoughts?

Can someone explain how The Broad Backed special rules works? What would a penalty of an additional hand weapon be?

Mournfang Cavalry 60 points

1 ogre 30 points
1 mournfang 30 points

Rhinox Cavalry 105 points

1 maneater 50 points
1 rhinox 55 points

Many extra +1 for the 25 points
+1 T , +1 W , +1 A (frenzy) , +1 AS , +1 IH
I will say Frenzy only for the rhinox.
Stubborn is not extra because you can have it via the maneater points .

Its very powerfull yes
But i have np when ppl will use them vs me in a battle
I take care of it... same like the mournfang cavalry

Not +1T. The mount's toughness doesn't matter since it's MC. All wounds will be against the rider's T4.

Still, these look a fair bit more powerful then Mournfangs. Ogres with a 1+ save, WS4, d3+1 impact hits, M7 + swiftstride? Nice.

Not +1T. The mount's toughness doesn't matter since it's MC. All wounds will be against the rider's T4.

Still, these look a fair bit more powerful then Mournfangs. Ogres with a 1+ save, WS4, d3+1 impact hits, M7 + swiftstride? Nice.

Same goes for the number of wounds.  Effectively the model is T4 W3.  I'm a little surprised they gave them swiftstride.  Just because you are M7 doesn't mean you have to have swiftstride.

So compared to Mournfang you have:  -1M +1WS +2BS +1S +1W +1A +1I +1Ld +1Armour +Stubborn +Frenzy and +1Impact Hit for 55 more points.  Personally, I think I'd prefer Mournfang, I can get 2 of them for the price of 1 Grimhorn Rhinox.  If they'd take off the BS, A, I, swiftstride, and stubborn additions, I'd like to see how much they cost.  If that version of a rider were around 85, I'd like them a lot more.

So... they gave us Maneaters riding Rhinoxen. All the extra goodies are actually pretty expensive - at the end of the day this is still a T4 model. I'd also seriously consider the heavy armor as well as the ironfist - the difference between a 1+ armor save and a 2+ armor save makes itself felt a-plenty. Having -1M AND Frenzy makes them a bit more unwieldy and more suited to just running up to stuff and hitting it. Overall, I wouldn't call them overpowered because of all the points you'd be dumping into them. Still, as far as the business of combat goes, they're pretty beastly.

And you do use the 4 Wounds, hardyworld. The rules for Monstrous Cav say you use the higher W of both models.

Ah, you are correct.

Can someone explain how The Broad Backed special rules works? What would a penalty of an additional hand weapon be?

You can't use XHW on cavelry as per the main rules. This overrides that.

Can someone explain how The Broad Backed special rules works? What would a penalty of an additional hand weapon be?

You can't use XHW on cavelry as per the main rules. This overrides that.

Didn't know that... Thanks GT

Not +1T. The mount's toughness doesn't matter since it's MC. All wounds will be against the rider's T4.

Still, these look a fair bit more powerful then Mournfangs. Ogres with a 1+ save, WS4, d3+1 impact hits, M7 + swiftstride? Nice.

Same goes for the number of wounds.  Effectively the model is T4 W3.  I'm a little surprised they gave them swiftstride.  Just because you are M7 doesn't mean you have to have swiftstride.

If they're monstrous cav, they automatically get swiftstride, because they inherit it from the cavalry rules.

Same with sabretusks... they have swiftstride because warbeasts have swiftstride universally.

Lovely, lovely indeed. I guess they make a fine Christmas present to yourself, no? 
I do not think they are that overpowered either...yes, they are Stubborn, but most time it will not matter, because they win any combat they attend anyways. I will have to test both units, but let's compare the common Mournfang build to three Grimhorn Rhinox Riders:

4 Mournfang Cavalry with Heavy Armour, Ironfists, Bellower and Standard Bearer with Dragonhide Standard
- 350 pts. = ~29 pts per wound
You get: 4D3 S5 Impact hits + 16 WS3 S5 attacks + 12 WS3 S4 attacks + 4 S5 Stomps

3 Grimhorn Rhinox Riders with Heavy Armour, Ironfists, Bellower and Standard Bearer with Dragonhide Standard 
- 415 pts. =  ~28 pts. per wound
You get: 3D3+3 S5 Impact hits + 12 WS4 S5 attacks + 15 WS3 S5 attacks + 3 S5 Stomps

RR have one wound more as well as Ini 3 and WS4 for the riders. Stubborn is nice, but if you loose a combat with the RR you deserve to fail the break test anyways. Frenzy can be a downside, but a 1+ Save definately balances it out. A 2+ save against S4 with rerolling 1's is just ace. RR have a smaller frontage, which can be nice against hordes (anything smaller than a horde will melt anyways) with Great Weapons. Lastly, the option for additional Handweapons is interesting, I'll test it for sure. Especially against S3 units where you have a 2+ save even without Ironfists. 

I'd say both units are good, we all know the devastating abilities of Mournfang Cavalry and I think the RR are quite as destructive, but not overpowered. Both will see use as very effective super heavy cavalry, I think!

Edit: One last addition: I really like it that FW decided to give the riders a Maneater profile. I never understood why regular Bulls rode the beasties (same with Mournfangs), since you would expect that it is a Feat of Strength to break a Rhinox or Mournfang. The Maneater profile reflects that quite well imo!

Your math on the attacks is off for the RR.  4 attacks base for each rhinox, +1 each for frenzy, makes 15.  Also, all the ogre and rhinox attacks are at WS 4.

Rhinox is WS3.

Rhinox is WS3.

You're right, was looking at W rather than WS.  My bad

These are brutal and quite cheap for what you get.

But...

I still prefer the Mournfangs because they are faster and cheaper (point wise) but the new Rhinox Riders is a welcome to all who want to use them in a friendly environment.

Hang on,

Unit size: 1+???? Special choice???

They are chariots!!!

Woa, nice point on the unit size!

As 1+, I'd really use them as chariots...even one of them adds serious punch to any CC they attend!

I'd run two singles and a unit of 3/4 as well.

Hmm. T4 or T5?

I can't imagine T5 was put there and not intended to be used but I believe you use the rider's T.

The T5 is there to torment us, and in case we are ever required to take a Toughness test(because a model will always use the best stat avaliable for stat tests)

You might say that T5 is what gives us the +3 armour save.

Very expensive for what they do as a unit, but very useful as individual models (imo).

You guys make it sound like these things are about on par with Mournfangs. The numbers seem to make some sense but I still don't get it.
 

I'd say both units are good, we all know the devastating abilities of Mournfang Cavalry and I think the RR are quite as destructive, but not overpowered. Both will see use as very effective super heavy cavalry, I think!

A single one of these seems on par with most older monsters (not the new T8 stuff) out there, even a Hydra.
Champ w/AHW is putting out 12 S5 attacks plus impact, at 2+ AS. Less then 130 Pts.
Champ w/Ironfist is putting out 11 S5 attacks plus impact, at 1+ AS, 6+ Parry. Still less than 130 Pts.
Or does T4, 4 wounds vs. T5, 5+ wounds make that much of a difference?

Probably priced about right.  With heavy armor and Iron Fists, you are looking at 375 for a unit of three with full command.  Most units in that price range will fight them on even footing.  Either the Stubborn or the Frenzy part needs to get dumped and the magic banner needs to be one unit per army, to bring it in line with the rest of the Ogre book.  I would personally give them (riders only) Reckless Charge and give them the Been There Done That rule, since they are essentially Maneater Cavalry, so if someone wants them to be Stubborn or ItP, then they sacrifice it from some Maneaters elsewhere in the army.

I must say, yes, they seem a bit strong for their points. seeing as these are unofficial, I may play around with their stat lines for friendly games.
I am thinking WS3 BS3 T5 I2 and maybe take away stubborn and they would be just fine (pretty darn close to the old RRs if I remember as well.)
One thing to remember with the BS4 is that they do not get the same "smooth ride" rule as the thundertusk, so they will suffer for moving and shooting (but who is going to move a combat unit instead of march it for just 2 shots?) so keeping in mind the penalties for moving _or stand and shoot) and multi-shots you are looking at hitting on a 5+ only.

I am just glad they got new rules. I'll probably show up to GW with my forgeworld RRs and ask permission to use their rules. If not, I've always subbed them in as Mournfang, no one seems to complain about that.

Dependable, hard hitting, resilient and stubborn.

With one less T and W from a monster its a little fragile. Stubborn counters this, as well as being 1+ and special.

All positives with these guys, if you can run them you should.

Chubby initiated in T-minus 5...4...3......

Something odd I have noticed here on the stronghold...
Everyone seems to be complaining that they are UNDERCOSTED. Now, I also agree with that, but I printed the PDF off and showed it to a few people who I go to tournaments with. No one complained, everyone said that they were just fine, and even wrote a couple lists with optimum builds.
"But Stubborn" I protested "WS4! 1+ save! Can be augmented!"
They didn't seem to care. They all devised strategies to beat the RRs (most usually abusing Frenzy and redirecting them).
A Dwarf, wood elf, empire, chaos warriors, tomb kings and 2 dark elf players all agreed that the RRs are just fine, maybe even over priced...

So I must say... I think we as ogre players are generally too nice. We spent so much time having an underpowered book and just enjoying the game we are worried our new book is too strong and our opponent womt have fun.

I guess ogres are like onions,and deep down we are all really nice people who care about others....

That or my friends are idiots.

Your friends are right. Probably. The new RRs hit hard, but not much harder than Mournfangs. And they cost a bit more. They're tougher, but they're also easier for the opponent to abuse.
Really, the old adage about ogres and sledgehammers still holds true for RRs- if you stand still and let someone swing a sledgehammer at you, your head is gonna get crushed.

did you also see that the unit can take a look out gnoblar!!!

maybe this will mean FW will bring some other character out for the Ogres.
could be released with their next fantasy book.


on the other note i like the new rules since after playing again with mournfangs and failing me yet again i would love to play these guys again!

My buddy actually freaked out about these (i think because my mournfang tear into his TK) He said he dreaded us having another hard hitting faster unit. BUT he said sure field them, he thinks the points are appropriate and him and I both believe that the frenzy is actually a hindrance to the unit moreso than a benefit. Look forward to getting a few games in with them this weekend. If units are a little too powerful, I may try running them as chariots/individual monsters to help support my blocks are protect flanks. Cant wait to hear some tales from the battlefield involving these guys!

Semper Fi

did you also see that the unit can take a look out gnoblar!!!  maybe this will mean FW will bring some other character out for the Ogres.  could be released with their next fantasy book.

I will ask my source 

I have always liked them and this will give me a reason to get one.  My main opponent plays dwarves so with all his cannons etc I doubt he will have a problem with it...     

Forge World should really take out the word "Experimental" from the rules. I assume they experimented with them already before posting them on their "Official" website.

I say that only for the reason that the "E" word is looked down upon by some players when you show them the rules.

One thing bother me: the frenzy rule was expected for the Rhynox, as they got it in Strorm of Magic, but as written it would seem that both the rider and the mount get the rule, maybe an error ?

How can Frenzy be abused if you are lingering under the BSBs umbrella, typically backed by the Generals leadership as well? Do not be saying you won't either because your army will be smaller with the Rhinox Riders in it. By the time Frenzy becomes an issue it will probably be in your opponents deployment zone after the Riders have already gone through the core of his army like a 7/11 Burrito.

Because you are forced to overrun. Put a chaff unit in front of them, oriented so they can't wheel past it and if they charge, they will overrun in a wrong direction. You win at least one turn, and it can be repeated again.

Because you are forced to overrun. Put a chaff unit in front of them, oriented so they can't wheel past it and if they charge, they will overrun in a wrong direction. You win at least one turn, and it can be repeated again.

Exactly. Same way we lead those 50 khorne marauder units off into the boonies away from the fight.

Huh well the answer is the same for both then isn't it? A unit of Sabertusks, the counter being a sturdier chaff unit to the point where the chaff isn't chaff anymore and is a goodly chunk of points you don't want to chuck away

The answer to everything is sabretusks.  There is no problem that can't be solved at least in part with kitties.

I think that's going into my signature...

One thing bother me: the frenzy rule was expected for the Rhynox, as they got it in Strorm of Magic, but as written it would seem that both the rider and the mount get the rule, maybe an error ?

Same error they made with the Stonehorn. Currently, the Rare Stonehorn has both the rider and mount having Frenzy. But the Hunter on a Stonehorn won't have Frenzy?

Frenzy is a mess really. The rulebook clearly states that the whole model has Beserk Rage "but only the element with the Frenzy rule gains an Extra Attack."

Now, if they actually specified which elements had Frenzy that'd be fine. I'm assuming the intent was only the Rhinox have Frenzy... but then that seems to be the case with Stonehorn also.

I just purchased two forge world Rhinox Riders on ebay! Look out Empire and WoC!!!!

I think I saw them on there. One had some misformed teeth? Last bid I saw was for $63. How much did they end up costing?

A single one of these seems on par with most older monsters (not the new T8 stuff) out there, even a Hydra.
Champ w/AHW is putting out 12 S5 attacks plus impact, at 2+ AS. Less then 130 Pts.
Champ w/Ironfist is putting out 11 S5 attacks plus impact, at 1+ AS, 6+ Parry. Still less than 130 Pts.
Or does T4, 4 wounds vs. T5, 5+ wounds make that much of a difference?

comparing it with an hydra is no good... hydra has 1/2 chance to bounce a cannonball.... the RR do not.

$71.01 with free shipping! The exchange rate would put a new one at $46 each (approximately) plus international shipping. Can't beat that.

A little green stuff and those teeth should look just fine. Once I get the rider all samurai-ed up, they'll be ready for the table!  The bidding was pretty light. I guess everyone was in a turkey coma by the time it ended.   

Army Builder updated with the new Rhinox riders.

Apologies for the necromancy - I know its meant for Saturday but I have been looking at the Rhinox Riders on my workbench and thinking about finally assembling them when I remembers something from the BRB. I haven't heard any one mention it so, on pg 88 it says:

"As a final caveat, the parry save cannot be claimed by Frenzied warriors - they're far too bonkers to think overmuch about their personal safety - nor can it be used by mounted models."

This would prevent Rhinox Riders from taking parry save while they are frenzied. I assume everyone is finding frenzy to be a boon rather than a bane for them so what is the best equipment for them. Mournfangs work well with shields but if there aren't any parry save for Rhinox Riders, would an additional hand weapon or great weapon be better? I would lean towards great weapons to improve the already formidable number of attacks and make them excellent can openers. Additional hand weapons would only be marginal, taking them from 10 to 11 attacks.

On another note, how are people finding them running in groups of 1 as ogre chariots?

The 1+ armor save is a good enough reason to take that the loss of the parry isn't a huge deal.

I've been running a lone champion with a great weaopn, at 128 points he's brilliant as a supporting charger, especially if he can get on the flank. His large number of high S attacks mean he's generally adding 4 or 5 to combat res which is obviously very useful.

Yeah, as soon as I saw these rules, I immediately dreamed about using them more as chariots than cavalry.  Use one or two, as singles, by themselves running around causing havoc.

And a great reason to now use the beautiful models, at least in a fun game.

Could this guy be used to deal with an Imperial Steam Tank??  How would he fair?

I've played one game with a solo champion, I opted for brace of pistols.  11str 5 attacks is not something that is easily ignored.  Sure you ONLY get a 2+ save but as long as you don't charge him in solo no one is going to attack him anyways.