Practical Yhetee Thoughts (2011)

Greetings,

I've considered making the switch to Ogre Kingdoms from High Elves and inevitably have been spending the last few weeks reading your collective comments and army lists. The switch is one-part math-hammer based and two-parts tired of playing flimsy and frail pointy-ears! I'm sure I'll start missing ASF soon, so it's up to you guys to get me hooked and convince me that Sabretusks are more enjoyable than Great Eagles and Leadbelchers have more utility than Archers and RBTs.

On to the actual post... Yhetees. I have to admit that when I first looked at the book, Yhets looked like a terrible choice - no save, Flammable, and comparably expensive. They have received little attention on the board for presumably this very reason, so I decided to point out their shrouded bonuses. Don't quit reading, I know I said Yhetees, but I'm sure there's some substance later in this post! Bonuses are based against Ironguts as they have comparable cost.

The Slight Bonuses:
Initiative 4 - Useful against other ogre players, rats, empire, and bloodletters.

Magic Weapons - I know that this has little effect in the game, but Ogres are TERRIBLE at taking out Wraiths or suiciding to kill a High Elf Archmage w/Foloriath's Robe. Yhetees do both of these things extremely well and kill Forest Spirits to boot.

The Major Bonuses:
Movement 7 and Swiftstride - Only Mournfang move as fast and at almost twice the cost (after HA+IF)

WS4+ - I label it as such because their ability is better than WS4, in fact, much better. Yhetees hit more often than IG's against WS3 and WS7 targets, and are hit less by WS2 attacks back. The major bonus comes against a failed fear test, punching a 3+ to hit for Ironguts to an auto-hit for Yhetees. I understand that failed fear tests may seem few and far between, and against some armies are non-existent, but this enters play due to my math-hammer reasoning, definitely something from another post.

The Negatives:
Strength 5 instead of 6. Problem against higher armor and monsters, but realistically not a problem since Yhets will be gunning for the basic infantry/war machines/monstrous infantry of the opponent, none of which are consistently well-armored.

Leadership 7 instead of 8 - Admittedly the largest problem, but it will be with any Ogre army. Low leadership kinda plays into the plan though...

Armor save - No save hurts, but 5+ save for the things IG's will be fighting is almost negligible.

Flammable - Another large problem, but the counter-argument to 'everyone has flaming attacks' is that yes, almost every army does, but it's usually on a small unit to drop Regen for a turn. Besides, it keeps them from dropping Regen on your Trollguts unit(s).

No Bull Charge - Maybe two-casualty change, again, the units you target don't know the difference.

Not Immune to Ice Magic - No words needed, largest negative possible.

The Plan:
Six Yhets cost 264 points, expensive for some armies, not so much for OK. Against lower leadership armies, Beastmen, O&G, the unit will destroy large blocks with 3+ to hit or even auto-hits. On the off chance you get an ironic Flaming Sword off on the unit, that's auto-hits and auto-wounds. At the end of the day, the unit is excellent against rank and file and cheaper than Maneaters by a bit.

The unit is fast enough to ward off flankers and annoyances and able to get around the opponent's flanks very quickly. A six-man unit is unlikely to panic from small arms fire and even less likely to draw any attention at all - they're Yhetees, and according to the world, they're terrible.

Summary (TLDR):
Not a hammer like Mournfang, not a bunker/armor-cracker like Ironguts, but fast and excellent against rank and file and opposing monstrous infantry.

Hope to make the switch to OK's and bring something to the forum in the near future.

- Alanir

Hey dude, welcome to the board.

First of all, I don't think Yhetee's are bad. In fact, i think the general consensus is that they're ok as a unit. The problem comes with what they compete with. The Ogre special choices are crammed full of things you want to take, and generally you’re going to have some hard decisions to make about what units to pick.

With m7 and swiftstride yhetees are basically a cavalry unit. This means they're likely competing with mournfangs in your list. However, mournfangs have the potential to take a 2+ armoursave, and a magic banner (which are fairly limited in our lists), so they are a much more resilient unit.

If you decide to take both yhetees and mournfangs, it's likely you'll be leaving behind the powerful maneaters, of battery or flamers leadbelchers, or even those 3 single sabretusks, each of which provides a very useful ability to your army. Maneaters can be a powerful hammer, leadies can trim units and kill knights, and sabres can allow you to win the deployment war.

Hetel

Yeah, Hetelic got it right.  I'm not sure there is a BAD unit in the book, there is just soo much competition for slots.  I can't fit half of what I want into a 2500 pt. list.  I've started propostitioning my friends for 4000 point games so I can include a little more.

I really want to use Yhet's, but I haven't quite figured out how to work them into the army yet.  6 in a unit (I'm finding) is pretty much a no go for specials.  I can afford 4 Mans, 4 Mourns and 4 Leadies and they all serve a very valuable purpose.

The Man's are pure threat and with snipe I'm taking out that Brass Orb turn 1, Mourns are a monstrous unit that ANYONE will have trouble stopping and Leadies are almost required to stop enemy ranged (Lizardmen ate me alive without them).

With a take all comers list, their just hard to work in.  If you knew what you were going up against though.  I'd definitely bring them.

First off, welcome to the stronghold!

Magic Weapons - I know that this has little effect in the game, but Ogres are TERRIBLE at taking out Wraiths or suiciding to kill a High Elf Archmage w/Foloriath's Robe. Yhetees do both of these things extremely well and kill Forest Spirits to boot.

Now that the ogres have access to fireball none of the above are really a problem.

The Major Bonuses:
Movement 7 and Swiftstride - Only Mournfang move as fast and at almost twice the cost (after HA+IF)

I think if the longstrider big name gave swiftstrideras as well +1 movement, yhetees would see a lot more play! Because as it stands they are good but overshadowed by every other special choice, and don't synergies well with much.

Hope to make the switch to OK's and bring something to the forum in the near future.

Well you are off to a great start (have a gnoblar!), with a nice in depth review that I'm sure most readers on the forum will get something out of! You had some solid points with the fear/frost aura combo (might synergies well with Doom and Darkness from the lore of death).

As for immunity to frost magic...we all know that would be overpowered!

auto hit and auto wound?
hmm dont think so sorry

how are u even getting that
u can never hit better than on a 3+ (unless u have somethign like +1 to hit in which case a 2+ is the best, unless u have something that says auto hit :p)

this is the same with wounding, 2+ is the best u can get unless u have something that gives u auto wound

even if an enemy fails its fear test we are still hitting on 3+ (not even 2+)

the problem with yeties is that we have so many other options
mounfang cav, leadblechers and maneaters

they are good for a themed army though

My biggest problem with Yeti’s is that for a few points more you can take a unit of man-eaters that do a better job.

264 6 Yettis
331 6 Maneaters 3 additional hand weapons, Banner,  +1 movement speed, Swift stride, Poison

67 points buys you
 3 Impact hits
12 attacks
 6+ Armor save (marginal)
 +1 combat resolution and fortitude
Poisond attacks
Lack of vulnerability to Fire (As a Treeman player I know how often this comes up.)
Leadership of 8(Biggest advantage since you will often be running around outside of the general’s bubble).

Versus
the ability to Auto hit (Marginal due to rarity)
1 point of initiative
magical attacks (Only comes into play against Vamps and rarely against HE).

WS 4 is better defensively against supporting attacks but lacks the potential burst damage of a failed fear check from the Yetti’s. I still give the edge to the Yetti’s.

Unless building your army around a level 4 death I just don’t see a place for Yetti’s in many lists.

auto hit and auto wound?
hmm dont think so sorry

how are u even getting that
u can never hit better than on a 3+ (unless u have somethign like +1 to hit in which case a 2+ is the best, unless u have something that says auto hit :p)

this is the same with wounding, 2+ is the best u can get unless u have something that gives u auto wound

even if an enemy fails its fear test we are still hitting on 3+ (not even 2+)

the problem with yeties is that we have so many other options
mounfang cav, leadblechers and maneaters

they are good for a themed army though

Failing your fear test causes you to drop to WS1.
Yhetees reduce the Weapon Skill of models in base contact by 1.
1-1=0
BRB says that models with a Weapon Skill of 0 may not attack, and are hit automatically in close combat.

Additionally, there's an FAQ that states if you need a 2+ to wound, and you are getting +1 to wound rolls, you then wound automatically. (in the example above, he calls out an "ironic Flaming Sword," which would grant +1 to wound, causing any 2+ to become automatic wounds.)

Thanks for the warm welcome, the pet, and the responses. I probably should have added exactly how I was getting auto-hits, I'll blame a quick after-work post on that miss.

Bigbada's response with the Maneaters makes a good point, and you do indeed get a huge gain for not-so-many points in return. I honestly had been focusing more on having to use Swiftstride as one of the Maneaters' abilities and completely overlooked giving them the Banner of Swiftness.

I suppose there would be more utility with the unit if you were guaranteed to play against all sorts of races at a grand tournament. As it stands, most of the units/armies I've listed that Yhetees excel against don't even show up after game two or three (if you're doing well).

Again, thanks for the responses! Hopefully I'll be able to get some lists ready, some games under my belt, and a tournament report or two in the next few months.

Yhettis are just about the worst unit in the book in my opinion, with only Scraplaunchers being a worse choice.  You can get so much more out of an equivalent point unit of Maneaters (without even compromising your main combat Man Eater unit's rule choices) with none of the weaknesses that it just isn't even funny.  This is one of the few spots in the book where GW dropped the ball, as the unit has no purpose that is not covered better by other units.  They cannot even function well as flankers because of a lack of ability to swift reform.  I could see a themed army taking them, but thats about it.

Strength 5 Yhetees isn't bad it will hit through a lot of the armour.

Flammable makes them a bit vulnerable with all the Flaming Banners and such around but no more than Treemen & Treekin.

Initiative 4 is good vs. everything bar ASF, HE's and Initiative 5 WoC armies.

I don't think the Yhetees are that bad just not as good as some of our other choices.

i dont think i'd field a unit of 6 of them, despite the reduced cost. 

with their superior speed and, as they are at their best vs. units away from the general's leadership bubble (so that their fear and aura of frost find synergy more often), i think they would be best on the flanks of an army working as an harrassment unit in much the way that other light cavalry does. 

I'm thinking that 2 units of 3 would be better in the long run than one unit of 6.

My biggest problem with Yeti’s is that for a few points more you can take a unit of man-eaters that do a better job.

This.

Perhaps if Yeti's had a save of some kind, an ASL aura, or something else they might be worth taking. As it is, they are more prone to panic, lack options, and take double fire damage. Maneaters have both options are are more resilient at a similar point cost.

The best i have gottten out of them is in a unit of 4 un 2x2. I used them as far out flankers, deploying them out right on the flank, and running them in a large arc round into the back of the enemy. usually they reach them by turn 3 - 4, where the rest of my army has already gotten into combat and they can get those flank charges in and break the opponent.

Because of their lack of armour save, and no impact hits, i find it best to use them exclusivly for flank and rear charges. My first experience with them ran them unto the front of a unit of witch elves, and nothing but a fine snow powder ran out the other end. In fact the gnoblars in combat with the witches survived more than the yhettes.

Their biggest problem has been said - their competition - Mournfangs for speed + armour, with impact hits, and the same number of attacks for the points, or maneaters, who can fill so many roles if required, so are much more versitile.

I will keep using them, but only in games of 2400 or more.

You are overlooking some things when comparing Yhettees and Maneaters. Of course, Maneaters do have a role blabla, we all know that. That said, Yhettees aren't THAT bad now that they are WAY cheaper than before.

Point-to-point in close combat, Yhettees will for example own Maneaters without even sweating.

4 Maneaters Swiftstride/?, AHW, HA, FC, Banner of Swiftness = 267 pts
6 Yhettees with Champ : 274 pts.

In close combat, Yhettees attack first with 19 attacks :
- Hit on 4+ = 10.5 hits
- Wound on 3+ = 7 W
=> 2 ME dead

I won't even go further, the Yhettees demolished more than half of the Maneaters before they even attacked.

And I will remember the face of my WoC opponent when their Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch failed their fear test and I put 19 S5 auto-hits + 3 S5 stomps on them, preventing them from attacking. That was pure gold.

TL;DR : I'm not advocating they are nicer than the other choices, just saying they aren't pure trash. They will suffer from the internal competition a lot, but they aren't trash like they used to be.

The auto hit/can't get hit possibility is something worth considering. But it does relegate yhetees to operating against enemy units that are out the the general/bsb bubble to try and help them fail those fear tests.

The auto hit/can't get hit possibility is something worth considering. But it does relegate yhetees to operating against enemy units that are out the the general/bsb bubble to try and help them fail those fear tests.

And this tactic needs you to run your yethees outside your generals/BSB's range as well most probably.  That is why I think a unit of maneaters (more expensive true) with stubborn as one of their rules and maybe the movement banner will be better for this role of flank charges.

(stubborn + swiftstride for those D3 impact hits maybe?)

Hence why I'd recommend running them as units of 3, treating them like fast cav so that if you do lose them it isn't taking a huge chunk of points.

This is getting very 6th ed with them though, but it might work now.

Hence why I'd recommend running them as units of 3, treating them like fast cav so that if you do lose them it isn't taking a huge chunk of points.

This is the exact way I've been using them.

If you treat them as fast cav throwaway flanking unit and don't expect too much, you'll get something out of them.

Having more magical attacks is a great thing, it can really help you out if playing vamps, they are spirit host/ Wraith killers as I4 and S5 do some damage.


The better (I) comes in handy against a lot more things than the OP says.

I would also point out that when comparing to other stuff that is just as fast and have swiftstride, Sabretusks didn't get mentioned.

But anyway, a unit of 3 at 132 points isn't too bad and gives you another unit on the table which always comes in handy I think.

The points for Yhetees isn't that bad 3 Yhetees = 2 Maneaters tooled up

I won't even go further, the Yhettees demolished more than half of the Maneaters before they even attacked.

First of all, no flanking unit is going to weigh in at 270+ points.  Thats a mainline combat unit.  Second, the flanker Man Eaters will simply have AHW or GW, Swiftstride, Scout, and Musician.  Third, the head to head matchup is completely irrelavent to the discussion, because we are talking about flank support units, which typically are facing WS3 opposition and/or fast cavalry units.  The Man Eaters will consistantly out perform Yhetties against these units, with better leadership to resist panic.  They also are harder to defend and will always make combat by turn two, thanks to scout.

How many more points is the unit you describe than the 132 the yhettes cost? (book not handy)

This is the exact way I've been using them.

If you treat them as fast cav throwaway flanking unit and don't expect too much, you'll get something out of them.

Having more magical attacks is a great thing, it can really help you out if playing vamps, they are spirit host/ Wraith killers as I4 and S5 do some damage.

I ran them 2X2, but I think this is probably better. Cheaper, and you don't get concered about their survival.

auto hit and auto wound?
hmm dont think so sorry

how are u even getting that
u can never hit better than on a 3+ (unless u have somethign like +1 to hit in which case a 2+ is the best, unless u have something that says auto hit :p)

this is the same with wounding, 2+ is the best u can get unless u have something that gives u auto wound

Fear drops you to WS1.

Aura of Frost is -1WS, which becomes WS0.

as per the first couple pages of the book(P4 or 5 IIRC) WS0 is hit automatically.

I ran them 2X2, but I think this is probably better. Cheaper, and you don't get concered about their survival.

Yeh, 4 isn't that cheap and I think that's the way to keep them- cheap.

They pack a little punch, have MA's, -1WS and fear hurts smaller opposing flankers.
Faster moving and Swiftstride gives them the ability to zip around better and makes them good to combo charge with a better unit as they can do the pursuing.

I can certainly see some yetis doing some real damage if used in a sniper maneater/death magic type list where you are going to be taking out the enemies characters at a pretty good clip anyway. No general's leadership bubble would then give the yetis free reign to choose combats anywhere.

The problem would then lie in first finding the points  to put in the yetis to start with and then actually killling off what is most likely the best protected character on the board early.

They should have scrapped the hunter and replaced him with a Yhetee hero! Or made hunters(currently a waste of space..at least before he had trappers and a proper Xbow) come with movement 7 and swiftstride and let them join yhetees.

If Harpoon launchers were actual Bolt Throwers hunters would be awsome. He would act as mobile artillery(on a Stonehorn) and so would the regular Stonehorn and Thundertusk.

HKB would have been a good addition too(or at least have that be Beastkiller's effect)

Along the lines of Wildcard's (and a few others' posts), the unit of three as a flanker is rather appealing. Everybody in the game gets a sort of fast cav, war-machine-hunting type of unit, and they all clock in around +-100 points, so realistically the 132 cost of the Yhets isn't that bad. You're not as mobile as Dark Riders and such, but you sure are more useful in combat later in the game.

I had completely forgotten about the WS0 no attacks back, that's quite a laugh.

As I said previously, I'll have to throw the unit in and give some actual battle report feedback - as opposed to the math-hammer I'm used to presenting. Thanks for the responses (and pet gnoblars), all!

The problem would then lie in first finding the points  to put in the yetis to start with and then actually killling off that is most likely the best protected character on the board early.

Spamming Ironblaster shots, in addition to snipereaters, has a chance (33% per turn with two of them pounding the character of a failed Lookout Sir), as does the Hellheart if he is a caster.  Failing that, Lore of Death is always on option and might synergize well with the Yhetties anyhow, if you are trying to pull the WS0 shennanigans.

Also, the WS0 trick only works on your turn, since the active player gets to choose what order effects are applied in.

must...resist...beginning....debate....

ok i hear alot of this auto hit from failing a fear check from yhetes

as a nurgle warriors of chaos played and i can tell u 100% that the WS can not go to 0
BRB says min of 1

the only time something has WS 0 is when u are attacking a wall or something

Brb does not say a min of 1, re-read page 4

You can drop them to WS0, but unfortunately, that only applies to the models in base contact, so if you are in the front arc, the supporting attacks may still strike you at WS1.

You can drop them to WS0, but unfortunately, that only applies to the models in base contact, so if you are in the front arc, the supporting attacks may still strike you at WS1.

Without a book handy - for frost aura, does it say models in base contact, or units in base contact?

It says models.

I have been thinking about pairing a unit of yhetees with a longstrider tyrant. It may be an odd combo and you will lose swiftstride, but I may try it out and see if it works.

Also, the WS0 trick only works on your turn, since the active player gets to choose what order effects are applied in.

You get to choose the order in which effects are applied when things happen at the same time - page 30. Fear is resolved at the start of each combat round and Frost Aura is a constant effect, so there is no need to decide when it happens!

1.Model is in base contact gets its W4 reduced to W3.
2.Fear reduces models to W1
3.Model is in base contact with yhetee, therefore their weapon skill is always at -1.
4.Model in base contact gets its W1 reduced to W0.

ok i hear alot of this auto hit from failing a fear check from yhetes

as a nurgle warriors of chaos played and i can tell u 100% that the WS can not go to 0
BRB says min of 1

the only time something has WS 0 is when u are attacking a wall or something

As a WoC player myself I use the Nurgle exalted, book of secrets(shadow-miasma), shrieking sword combo on my nurgle warriors as standard. And you can have your weapon skill reduced to 0, there is nothing in the rules against it, if there is please point out the page number.

 It's a standard tactic accepted on Librarium-Online and Chambers of The EverChosen two big WoC communities.

Also, the WS0 trick only works on your turn, since the active player gets to choose what order effects are applied in.

You get to choose the order in which effects are applied when things happen at the same time - page 30. Fear is resolved at the start of each combat round and Frost Aura is a constant effect, so there is no need to decide when it happens!

1.Model is in base contact gets its W4 reduced to W3.
2.Fear reduces models to W1
3.Model is in base contact with yhetee, therefore their weapon skill is always at -1.
4.Model in base contact gets its W1 reduced to W0.

ok i hear alot of this auto hit from failing a fear check from yhetes

as a nurgle warriors of chaos played and i can tell u 100% that the WS can not go to 0
BRB says min of 1

the only time something has WS 0 is when u are attacking a wall or something

As a WoC player myself I use the Nurgle exalted, book of secrets(shadow-miasma), shrieking sword combo on my nurgle warriors as standard. And you can have your weapon skill reduced to 0, there is nothing in the rules against it, if there is please point out the page number.

 It's a standard tactic accepted on Librarium-Online and Chambers of The EverChosen two big WoC communities.

A similar Tactic was suggested on the Skaven Forum with Gutter Runners equipped with Nets giving -1 to WS combined with a Character/Champion with the dreaded Mask of EEEE.

66 old gnoblars gets you 3 Yhetees, while 70 old gnoblars gets you 2 IF Mournfangs in HA.

Since I'm not seeing people use more than 1 unit of 4 Fangs with Dragonhide Banner, and you're allowed to use the same special entry 3 times, it might be worth using 2-man units as flankers instead of Yhetees?

A similar Tactic was suggested on the Skaven Forum with Gutter Runners equipped with Nets giving -1 to WS combined with a Character/Champion with the dreaded Mask of EEEE.

Oooh... that is evil, Skaven assassin in a gutter runner unit with nets... sounds like good fun when it works.

The best thing about the nurgle warrior combo is that its somewhat reliable on W3 troops (Ogres get rolled by this), miasma -D3 WS which on average is -2 (rather then depending on a fear check). Combined with a Nurgles/Death wizards ability to draw out dispel dice with buboes/spirit leach. 16 S4(S5 with halberds) auto hitting attacks and only a few supporting attacks back...This doesn't even include the exalted champions attacks.

Since I'm not seeing people use more than 1 unit of 4 Fangs with Dragonhide Banner, and you're allowed to use the same special entry 3 times, it might be worth using 2-man units as flankers instead of Yhetees?

There are times when it is beneficial to not have redundancy between your hammers and your flankers. Mournfangs are great, and a unit of two on the flank does fulfill the base role as a flanker. A few reasons (some far-reaching) why one would use the Yhetees instead -

- Deployment to force units with flaming attacks from your core army. Because I know when I see a flammable unit hit the table, my next drop is probably the unit with flaming attacks.

- Immunity to Lore of Metal and much better against Purple Sun/Pit of Shades. I hate dropping dispel dice on flankers, in fact I am inclined never to do it.

- Fewer points. At the end of the day, 15 to 65 points (around the cost difference range of substitutes people have suggested) matters. The question is, why are you spending these points? Does it matter if I have a 2+ save if I'm hitting you in the flank/dropping your warmachines? Do I need 14 attacks to kill some fast cav?

- People (Judges) don't usually like redundancy unless it's a theme throughout the entire army. Or rather, they prefer variety - probably a better way of stating it.

Will I run four Mournfang cav? Almost certainly - assuming I didn't already waste all of my points on Yhetees =). If I did need a flanker but had no central hammer unit, I would probably run the two Mournfang instead. For me, it's all about spreading the different weaknesses around instead of playing rock-paper-scissor to see if my opponent has the tools to take care of the one thing I throw at him.

I've three Yhettees myself and though I won't be expanding on that I think they can stay in my army.
They are a nice little utility unit alongside the Leadbelchers.

Also, the WS0 trick only works on your turn, since the active player gets to choose what order effects are applied in.

You get to choose the order in which effects are applied when things happen at the same time - page 30. Fear is resolved at the start of each combat round and Frost Aura is a constant effect, so there is no need to decide when it happens!

1.Model is in base contact gets its W4 reduced to W3.
2.Fear reduces models to W1
3.Model is in base contact with yhetee, therefore their weapon skill is always at -1.
4.Model in base contact gets its W1 reduced to W0.

Your applying the -1 WS effect twice.  Order matters.

You aren't applying it twice.  You have to calculate a variable and then apply the -1.  If the variable changes the output changes.  It's a simple formula.. Current WS -1 = New WS (similar in logic to the rending star / manbane formula).  Additionally, nothing says it's NOT a constant effect.. e.g. "-1 WS at the start of combat"... if it wasn't constant... all sorts of buff/debuff spells would have odd interactions.

The one thing I like about yhetties is their ability to pretty much negate most of the super spells in 8th edition (specifically dwellers below, pit of shades and purple sun) with a high or exellent base strength and initiative, they are likely to pass the required stat tests. This is a strong contrast when compared to the rest of our init 2 troops.

What about 2 x 8 Yhetees with Champion as flanking blocks.

Wooooo, for a minute I thought you meant a 2 ranks of 8.  That would be some Yhetee love!

Personally I would use that option if I didnt have to take core.  Since I do, I use 2x2 Ironguts as flank deniers/supporters.

There is sadly nothing to be said for yhettees that can't be done with man-eaters better. At only 8 points more with additional hand weapons, man-eaters have two extra attacks, light armour and can take a banner of swiftness and be superior in just about every way. The aura of cold is about as good as +1WS. Man-eaters can have swiftstride and another ability plus ogre charge. And as the final kick in the unmentionables, yhettees are flammable.

I think they needed to be 10 points a model cheaper to really find their way into a list. The fact that they have awful models just seals the deal for me, I have no incentive to even bother trying to find a use for them.

If they had AHW standard (they are frigging modeled that way!), access to a musician or scout, then they would be worth taking at their current price, even with Flammable.  Their damn cold aura should affect the entire unit engaged with them, as well, because as it is the support attackers are still hitting you on 3s.  They are just laughably bad when compared to even Bulls.  But, you can't complain because most of the units in the book is useful and they aren't as bad as (s)craplaunchers.

I think it would be kind of fun to do a theme army with Thundertusks, a bunch of Yhetties, and a Death Magic SM, though.  It would not be a strong army, but it would probably be fun to play and very unique.  Frost Monsters FTW!

PS- Not sure where you are getting this "continous effects" and "at the same time" thing.  The main rulebook sidebar on sequencing only talks about things that are resolved at the same time, not whether they are continous or not.  If anything, your argument would make it so that WS0 would never occur, since models in base contact are continously at reduced WS, while fear effects are only applied in the close combat phase, which would mean that the order of resolution would be Cold Aura then Fear.  You could also make the argument that fear is a constant effect, as well, since models with it constantly cause fear.

Everywhere I have played, though, has handled things like this the same way, which is when you have two or more contratdictory or competitng effects resolving at the same time, the active player decides the order they are resolved in.  Adding any more complication to it than that opens a ton of arguments on what constitutes a "constant effect" and rules lawyering like that.  Maybe your area plays it differently and has a group concencus on how you view these things, but everywhere I have been stateside keeps the sequencing rules simple.

Well at least the Yhetees have magical attacks (to deal with Wraiths) and Initiative 4 which isn't bad at all.

There are times when it is beneficial to not have redundancy between your hammers and your flankers.

- Flaming attacks has no additional effect on the rest of our army (save for some ward saves), so I'm not sure why you want to know which unit has flaming attacks? (and rock eye can find them otherwise)

- If they are using pit of shades or lore of metal on the two flanking Fangs instead of the main unit of Fangs, it's a good thing, right? Purple Sun in the flank you'd want to dispel anyhow.

- There is only 8 points differance between 3 Yhetees vs. 2 Fangs (both without command options). You might not need the extra attacks taking care of enemy flankers, but when you get around and behind enemy lines to face the bigger units, it'll come in handy.

- The theme of the army is Ogres! But I get the variation part.

If I went with 1 unit of Yhetees, it would be because of the tactical advantage of being able to shift your characters into this unit during deployment if the opposing army has the Purple Sun or Pit of Shades.

I just wish we had new Yhetee models, cause the Fangs are so cool!
*Not that I have anything against the current models, but if they did new ones they would completely own!

- Flaming attacks has no additional effect on the rest of our army (save for some ward saves), so I'm not sure why you want to know which unit has flaming attacks? (and rock eye can find them otherwise)

Flaming attacks affect EVERY unit in our army....Trollguts.

- Flaming attacks has no additional effect on the rest of our army (save for some ward saves), so I'm not sure why you want to know which unit has flaming attacks? (and rock eye can find them otherwise)

Flaming attacks affect EVERY unit in our army....Trollguts.

Having Trollguts rendered nearly useless by flaming attacks many-a-time in the last edition, I was thinking the same thing...

Ahh, yes, ofc. Well assuming you play with LotGM.

PS- Not sure where you are getting this "continous effects" and "at the same time" thing.  The main rulebook sidebar on sequencing only talks about things that are resolved at the same time, not whether they are continous or not.  If anything, your argument would make it so that WS0 would never occur, since models in base contact are continously at reduced WS, while fear effects are only applied in the close combat phase, which would mean that the order of resolution would be Cold Aura then Fear.  You could also make the argument that fear is a constant effect, as well, since models with it constantly cause fear.

Everywhere I have played, though, has handled things like this the same way, which is when you have two or more contratdictory or competitng effects resolving at the same time, the active player decides the order they are resolved in.  Adding any more complication to it than that opens a ton of arguments on what constitutes a "constant effect" and rules lawyering like that.  Maybe your area plays it differently and has a group concencus on how you view these things, but everywhere I have been stateside keeps the sequencing rules simple.

But they are not happening at the same time, and that rule is for effects that happen at the same time(fear happens at the beginning of combat), models in base contact with yhetees are always at -1WS. So the formula would be:

models ws - 1 = current ws

Nothing is happening at the same time, so there is no need for the player who's turn it is to decide when something happens. Its so simple, models in base contact with yhetees are ALWAYS at -1WS it doesn't matter whether the model in base contact has WS4 or WS1 after fear, they are still at -1WS when in base contact with Yhetees.

On the fear/auto-hit debate (sorry if it's really OT, please eat my Gnoblar...) :

Is it useful to know the WS before you use it ? I explain myself :

Begining of the combat round :
 - Fear test (pass or fail, whatever) : the WS is set to a certain value
"End of the beginning" :-)
Opponent has to roll to hit :
 - So my CC is X (potentially 1 due to fear)
 - Aura of Frost affects the WS


The reasonning is that it's useless to apply potential modifiers if there's no use to it. It may sound like "I want a auot-hit so I bend some rules to have it" but I assure you it's not, if the same interpretation would conclude in (WS 1 maximum) I would propose it anyway.

I make the parallel with the magic weapons whose effects are taken in consideration only when you use them.

- Flaming attacks has no additional effect on the rest of our army (save for some ward saves), so I'm not sure why you want to know which unit has flaming attacks? (and rock eye can find them otherwise)

Flaming attacks affect EVERY unit in our army....Trollguts.

Having Trollguts rendered nearly useless by flaming attacks many-a-time in the last edition, I was thinking the same thing...

Flaming attacks aren't such a great deal;

1. Use the rock eye to find where they are.

2. Avoid the unit that has them, or don't rely on Trollguts.

Simples.

I found they got worst since 8th ed and specially the new ogre book. As said, the only positive side I see is they got reduced in point cost.

I know they are not on my list as choice

Maybe your area plays it differently and has a group concencus on how you view these things, but everywhere I have been stateside keeps the sequencing rules simple.

My gaming club takes the this approach to rule lawyering:

THE FEASTMASTER DEFENCE:

"I have one, final, thing I want you to consider.  The Feastmasters are Ogres from the Mountains of Mourn, but the Feastmasters… LIVE … in the Lowlands. Now think about that. That does NOT MAKE SENSE.

Why would an Ogre, a ten-foot tall Ogre, want to live in the Lowlands, with a bunch of two-foot tall Halfings? That does NOT MAKE SENSE!  But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this rule? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this rule! It does NOT MAKE SENSE! Look at me. I'm a ruleslawyer defending a major rule, and I'm talkin' about the Feastmasters! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're thinking about that rule, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed gaming club, it does NOT MAKE SENSE! If the Feastmasters live in the Lowlands, you must agree! My case rests."

Works everytime

Btw, what is "stateside"?

Well the Yhettees are now 21pts cheaper per model than in the previous book, so this is about a 33% decrease in points and yet they are still rarely fielded at present

Btw, what is "stateside"?

"Stateside" is often used by US Military.  It basically means "When I'm in the US."  As opposed to being deployed or stationed overseas.

"Stateside" is often used by US Military.  It basically means "When I'm in the US."  As opposed to being deployed or stationed overseas.

That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure, being but a simple Englishman I'd never herd the expression before.

Sorry, should have clarified that.  Was trying to be clear that I meant continental United States, since I know there are people all around the globe that read this forum.  I know Europe plays things differently, too.  I should probably try and hit a GT over there at some point.

PS- And my argument it that the Sequencing sidebar just talks about when the rules take effect.  We have run into this a lot on the West Coast, with Nurgle Warriors being popular and guys taking the Terror Banner.  It also comes up with the Fencer's Blades.  The way its been handled out here (at least in LA and San Fran) is like this:

My turn- My Nurgle guys attacking your pointy ears and I pick the order
My Nurgle Warriors cause fear and you fail so your WS1
My Mark of Nurgle makes your WS reduced by one, so you are now WS0

Your Turn- (ie you pick the order)
My Mark of Nurgle makes your WS reduced by one, so you are now WS3
Failed fear makes you WS1.

My Turn- I cause fear and you have the Fencers Blades
Fencer Blades make you WS10
Failed fear makes you WS1

Your Turn-
Failed Fear makes you WS1
Fencer Blades make you WS10

It might seem dumb, but its better than dicing off on it, which is the next thing the rulebook tells you to do (and WILL happen if you try and argue with someone that some effects are "more constant" than others).  I like it because it puts the advantage in the active player turn which encourages aggressive play, if they want to dictate things.  Its also pretty easy to apply without having to arbitrarily decide some "constant" thing that the rules do not even have in their terminology, anyhow.

Where is the rule for auto hits? The only direct reference to that is for shooting on page 41, there is no rule (as far as I can see) for auto-hits in close combat.

Where is the rule for auto hits? The only direct reference to that is for shooting on page 41, there is no rule (as far as I can see) for auto-hits in close combat.

Page 4 under characteristics of zero.

Tempted to field 3 just to circle around a flank and harry the enemy (or the bsb my friend likes to run around by itself). Though even with magnets, these tall thin metal models love to faceplant and decapitate themselves. Perhaps run headless for bonus intimidation?

I think they're just trying to take the easy way out... 

LOL...
I think that you might get some play out of these guys in a themed army, combined with Lore of Death and some Stonehorns, but its not a strong list.  Its a shame too, because all it would take are one or two minor tweaks to make these guys playable, but the line between gold and lead is a single proton....

right that's it - once the next event is out the way (since lists have already been submitted) its 2 units of 3 yhettees in my army for at least 5 straight games!  I've heard the "yhettees are rubbish" line before, even from myself, right before Phil Manwaring took them to the UKGT (when it was a real GT) and spent 5 games on table 1 with them!  Even I started using them after that and found them to be very, very useful.

Things may have changed with the editions and the new book, but I'm not going to theory-hammer the unit to death, I'm going to get stuck in with them this winter!

Look at Yhettees this way.

The equivalent of Rat Ogres but 4pts more, less attacks but faster and Magical and don't need handlers.

Look at rat ogres this way... No one takes them in competitive lists! 

but the line between gold and lead is a single proton....

Actually it is 3 protons (there is a periodic table right next to me).

one thing else to add to the list of good points - it'd give you a unit you'd be happy to flee with.  fleeing charges doesnt happen as much in 8th, and as such opponents are less ready to deal with it.  If you want to play on that, yhetees might be the perfect unit to do it with due to swiftstride.

Cast Trollguts on a unit of 8 Yhetees and watch them kick butt!!!

Cast Trollguts on a unit of 8 Yhetees and watch them kick butt!!!

Or die just as well if you'd not cast it, from a simple fireball or flaming attacks   

Ye point taken Fire is bad!!

I have just been looking through the other Magic Lores and I am thinking that you could go a snow theme with Stone Horn  & Yhetees with SM and Lore of Heavens.

Harmonic Convergence & Ice Blizzard seem to go well with the Yhetees.

Is it too much to ask for the Ogres to learn ICE MAGIC!!!!!  Haha, I love those spells.  I think they would flow with Yhetee's pretty well too.  (Fluff and Use)

No, just no.

I still havn't forgiven GW for making us immune to a non-existant Lore so I certaintly don't want us to be the ones with access to that Lore.

LOL, no taste for irony?  Maybe they should have made an Ice Magic magical vortex I test spell.  (Am I putting HORRIBLE ideas out on the net for GW?)

No, just no.

I still havn't forgiven GW for making us immune to a non-existant Lore so I certaintly don't want us to be the ones with access to that Lore.

I don't get it. Thanks to the Dragonhide banner, I never took a single wound of cold damage. Did it ever fail you?

Ye immune to Ice Magic was the most oped thing in the previous book.

Fear the Immunity to Frost, Kislev! Shake in your mink fur boots, I tell you!

Immunity to Ice Magic was so powerful that no one ever took Ice Magic, and we singlehandedly prevented a Kislev army book since Ice Magic just wasn't working out anymore 

auto hit and auto wound?
hmm dont think so sorry

how are u even getting that
u can never hit better than on a 3+ (unless u have somethign like +1 to hit in which case a 2+ is the best, unless u have something that says auto hit :p)

this is the same with wounding, 2+ is the best u can get unless u have something that gives u auto wound

even if an enemy fails its fear test we are still hitting on 3+ (not even 2+)

the problem with yeties is that we have so many other options
mounfang cav, leadblechers and maneaters

they are good for a themed army though

Failing your fear test causes you to drop to WS1.
Yhetees reduce the Weapon Skill of models in base contact by 1.
1-1=0
BRB says that models with a Weapon Skill of 0 may not attack, and are hit automatically in close combat.

Additionally, there's an FAQ that states if you need a 2+ to wound, and you are getting +1 to wound rolls, you then wound automatically. (in the example above, he calls out an "ironic Flaming Sword," which would grant +1 to wound, causing any 2+ to become automatic wounds.)

Gnoblar!

Alright putting Yhetees in perspective.

5 Yhetees or 5 IG's?

5 Yhetees or a Giant?

5 Yhetees or 7 Ogres?

Alright putting Yhetees in perspective.

5 Yhetees or 5 IG's?

5 Yhetees or a Giant?

5 Yhetees or 7 Ogres?

try the same thing with 3 yhettees, Im not sure anyone is contemplating running 5

3 yhetees or 3 ironguts?
3 yhetees or a scraplauncher?
3 yhetees or 4 ogres with ironfists?

does that make you think differently?

While I might spam units of 3 guts, I wouldn't spam units of 3 yhetees (unless going for some kind of theme). That doesn't mean I would not take one for their obvious uses though. If they were a core choice I would definitly take one.

If the frost aura was FAQed more like the goblins' nets - affecting the unit, not just models in base contact - I could see a unit of 3 yhetees being a 'don't leave home without it' flanker. I might give 3 a go just for the heck of it. Dropping a unit of scouting maneaters nearby to ensure someone gets a flank charge early in the game.

I am actually contemplating a unit of 6 due to their I4 and Str 5 usually hitting on 3's not bad vs average troopers.

But definitely a flanking unit.