Hellheart vs Teclis

He doesn't "Miscast" he rolls on the table and our item says that items or special rules that affect the ROLL on the table can be used against the miscast caused by the Hellheart.

He doesn't "Miscast" he rolls on the table and our item says that items or special rules that affect the ROLL on the table can be used against the miscast caused by the Hellheart.

Did you notice your last part? "Against the miscast caused by the Hellheart", the text says it causes a miscast. If it said "against the miscast roll caused by the Hellheart" it would be a different story, but it isn't so.

What Wargamer said.

Also, I'd say ignoring the roll is very much "affecting" the miscast roll..

It would be nice if you could stop trying to squeeze every tiny bit of cheese out of this item? It's already crazy good, you don't need to try and loophole it better..

Well, if anything that affects a Miscast may be used against it, they really wouldn't have to specify that anything that affects the roll of a miscast could be used against it.. would they. That would just be implicit. The wording would be different as well as it would say that each Wizard in range Miscasts.

Apparently they had to add it to clarify because people go reading way to much into things..

What Wargamer said.

Also, I'd say ignoring the roll is very much "affecting" the miscast roll..

It would be nice if you could stop trying to squeeze every tiny bit of cheese out of this item? It's already crazy good, you don't need to try and loophole it better..

I find this rather inflammatory even if it's not meant to be. I have an opponent who plays Lizardmen and VC, he lost 3 Vampires to my first use of this item and then against Lizards with pimped out Slann I rolled a 1 for distance, doing nothing. Hardly cheese...

He also agrees that the Cupped Hands does not affect the Hell Heart due to the "roll on miscast table" rather than it saying "all wizards in x" suffer a miscast. If GW's intent was for it to be a miscast, they'd have just said "It causes a miscast" rather than adding extra words in.

It would be nice if you could stop trying to squeeze every tiny bit of cheese out of this item?

I find this rather inflammatory even if it's not meant to be.

Eh, water over my back. I don't have to rise to being called cheesy because I've been playing Ogres for over 3 years and all that time they have been considered as under performing. Anyone who thinks an old school Ogre player is arguing a point from the aspect of wanting something to be cheese is really missing the point. I don't care about something's cheese factor, if I did I wouldn't have been playing Ogres all this time.

What Wargamer said.

Also, I'd say ignoring the roll is very much "affecting" the miscast roll..

It would be nice if you could stop trying to squeeze every tiny bit of cheese out of this item? It's already crazy good, you don't need to try and loophole it better..

QFT - I completely agree. I think it's the same type of arument that's happening with the ironblaster/thundertusk S&S rules.

Just for completion, I don't S&S with my Ironblaster, but I do believe that Ironfist gives access to Magic Armour. Although I see this going round and round until we get an FAQ.... I find it just as likely that we lose magic armour and gain S&S as opposed to the opposite.

He doesn't "Miscast" he rolls on the table and our item says that items or special rules that affect the ROLL on the table can be used against the miscast caused by the Hellheart.

Did you notice your last part? "Against the miscast caused by the Hellheart", the text says it causes a miscast. If it said "against the miscast roll caused by the Hellheart" it would be a different story, but it isn't so.

You have quoted the very thing which prevents Teclis from using the Crown.

"Against the miscast caused by the Hellheart"

This says very clearly that it is the Hellheart causes the Miscast not Teclis, and as a result he can't use the Crown. Same for Cupped Hands.

Read back my post on the definition of make. The source of the miscast is the item but it is the wizard who makes the action of miscasting.

He doesn't "Miscast" he rolls on the table and our item says that items or special rules that affect the ROLL on the table can be used against the miscast caused by the Hellheart.

Did you notice your last part? "Against the miscast caused by the Hellheart", the text says it causes a miscast. If it said "against the miscast roll caused by the Hellheart" it would be a different story, but it isn't so.

You have quoted the very thing which prevents Teclis from using the Crown.

"Against the miscast caused by the Hellheart"

This says very clearly that it is the Hellheart causes the Miscast not Teclis, and as a result he can't use the Crown. Same for Cupped Hands.

And that is far too much trying to find an intending meaning. The FAQ will hopefully clarify all this and I hope people can just talk about it and agree (or roll) on it before a game if there is any contention rather than come up with dubious arguments about what exactly the words mean if you look at them by squinting and turning your head 36.5 degrees to the left.

I think by now we can all see that there is room for interpretation either way.
As we can see everyone has their own opinions.

Agree with your opponent or roll a D6 until an FAQ comes out