Hellheart crying on warseer.

Have been on warseer, and the amount of hate that hellheart has generated has mad e a long term ogre player smile. finnaly we have an item called OP! its a great day to be an ogre! You should check it out! 

Well... I have as I am one of the main people in that discussion. There are a few other Strongholders there as well.

Warseer has a pretty bad reputation - if they whine that it's OP, that means it's a good item.

As for exulting in it... I dunno. It's a good item for sure, but it's not like it's an autowin button.

Delicious vampire tears? I have only got to use it once, but winds of magic had been crap all game long, until he rolled 11 dice on the turn the hellheart went off and affected 4 wizards. I was barely able to contain my smug cackling when I saw him raise his arms in triumph at the 11 power dice and the single channel he had managed, and then I watched it melt into an expression of horror when I gleefully read the hellheart's rules aloud. One of my other friends chimed in with his two cents from the corner of the room, "That's f----n' horses--t!!!"

Man, I don't know that I have ever had that much fun playing Warhammer before that moment.

it isn't called Whineseer for nothing.


Take the Hellheart, it assures one turn of not much of anything from your opponent for magic. Although it is a fair gamble, you could roll a 1 and have it do nothing.

it isn't called Whineseer for nothing.


Take the Hellheart, it assures one turn of not much of anything from your opponent for magic. Although it is a fair gamble, you could roll a 1 and have it do nothing.

That's what happened to me the first and only time I've used it.

I used it on VC's as well, and while I didn't get as much hurt on them as I wanted (only rolled a 2, and most of the Vamps involved rolled a 7 on the miscast table), it did buy me enough time to get my Mournfangs and Ironguts stuck in almost unscathed, and thus obliterate his Ghouls and Grave Guard, respectively.

First of, it's not overpowered because you still have to roll a dice for the range. I rolled a 1 so nothing was inside of 5 inches.. there goes 50pts. I have to admit the second part about getting a dispel dice added to the pool is excessive. Most miscast do remove power dice from the pool anyways.

Consider the extra die "insurance," in case you only manage to hit one wizard.

Delicious vampire tears? I have only got to use it once, but winds of magic had been crap all game long, until he rolled 11 dice on the turn the hellheart went off and affected 4 wizards. I was barely able to contain my smug cackling when I saw him raise his arms in triumph at the 11 power dice and the single channel he had managed, and then I watched it melt into an expression of horror when I gleefully read the hellheart's rules aloud. One of my other friends chimed in with his two cents from the corner of the room, "That's f----n' horses--t!!!"

Wow, can you decide to use the item after rolling for the winds of magic? The item does say to use it at the start of the magic phase (just like rolling for the winds of magic). If you can, I'd tend to agree with the whineseer departement.

It actually says you roll it immediately after rolling for Winds of Magic.

Doh! Let's forget this happened ok?

I strongly dislike items like the hellheart as they can just win you the game without really doing anything (even if this doesn't happen that often). Pretty similar to cupped hands. Both my armies have an item that could have been awesome but was made into a maybe-I-win-the-game luck-bomb. Better items would in my opinion have been something like the following:

Cupped Hands of the Old Ones (50-70pts)
The caster ignores the effect of his first miscast on a 2+, his second on a 3+, and so on.
-->better miscast defense (what it's actually mostly used for, and no wizard-killer-luck.)

Hellheart (35-50pts)
One Use Only. Can only be used at start of opposing player's magic phase after rolling for Winds of magic. Opposing wizards within 24" may not add their wizardlevel when casting spells this turn.
--> it provides a similar magic defense, without the huge luck factor

What about a single cannonball killing a Thundertusk or Giant then?

Random is a huge factor in Warhammer - it should be included in certain items as well imo.

I strongly dislike items like the hellheart as they can just win you the game without really doing anything

Only if your army relies on magic to win the game.

There's a player in our group who, for the last 4 years, uses the same tactic every game. Fly his Dark Elf sorceress to the flank of the enemy and throw 6 dice into purple sun and hope for an irresistible.

This is why I plan on deploying to one side and putting my Hellheart caddy on the exposed flank. I've had to put up with his Purple Sun crap for years, it's about time he had to be worried by it.

It's not just on Warseer where people are crying about it!

There's a player in our group who, for the last 4 years, uses the same tactic every game. Fly his Dark Elf sorceress to the flank of the enemy and throw 6 dice into purple sun and hope for an irresistible.

How did he managed that when 8th Ed only came out just over 1 year ago and before that Purple Sun didn't exist?
Neither did throwing 6 dice (max was previously 5)

Maybe it just seems like 4 years. Don't underestimate how long it seems when one person from your gaming group uses the same army, with the same tactic EVERY GAME.

His tactic of flying his sorcress down the flank and casting spells hasn't changed.

It's not just on Warseer where people are crying about it!

There's a player in our group who, for the last 4 years, uses the same tactic every game. Fly his Dark Elf sorceress to the flank of the enemy and throw 6 dice into purple sun and hope for an irresistible.

How did he managed that when 8th Ed only came out just over 1 year ago and before that Purple Sun didn't exist?
Neither did throwing 6 dice (max was previously 5)

he accidentally revealed that he is a time traveler. get him!

What about a single cannonball killing a Thundertusk or Giant then?

Random is a huge factor in Warhammer - it should be included in certain items as well imo.

i hate D6-wound cannons as well. In my opinion, they just should not be there. (however, I also think that cannons shouldn't have a 1/12 chance to blow up.)

he accidentally revealed that he is a time traveler. get him!

Eat his brains! That will give us his secrets!

I must say I'm a little surprised at that BPM, that tactic was only in vogue for a brief period until people started realising that it isn't all that reliable.

I think when he wiped out over half of one of our players Dwarf armies off the board with it, it pretty much cemented into his brain that it was TEH BEST THING EVAWR, so he keeps doing it.

Over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.

Yep after wearing Psun love from other armies, now we get a shot at those who stray too close

I've been posting in that thread (Drongol over there, go figure).  It kind of makes me laugh, honestly.

Yes, it's nice against Vampires spamming wizards or Orcs with 4 level 1 Night Gobbo Shamans (Shamen?).  But I am taking it primarily to drain a few D6 worth of dice from the magic phase.  That's it.  The extra stuff is just that, extra.

Let them winge about 1 of the few good items from the new Ogre book.

Considering that we've been languishing in the perceived discard bin of Warhammer armies for two editions I think it's quite funny that a rather expensive one-use item cops so much heat. If your army didn't rely on magic it'd be a useless item to take. Blame 8th edition for making a lvl 4 almost mandatory not the fact we get a couple of useful magic items in our army book.

Their tears will be a perfect addition to the Butcher's cauldron.

Cheesy: On turn one, charging a Firebelly as close to the enemy caster as possible, popping the Hellheart, and hope for a quick kill.

Not Cheesy: Equipping the Hellheart and using when in range of one or more enemy spellcasters, as part of your overall strategy. Perhaps you even let slip to the opponent that you have one in your list, and force them to adapt to you.

Once the knee-jerk reaction to a new book (OMG broken this, cheesy that) dies down, it will be like every other strong item or spell in the game: some people will use it in unfun, exploitative ways in which it was not intended, and the rest of us will use it the right way and have fun.

Another thing is that the "Cheesy" strategy is also incredibly risky - if your enemy mages has any shooting worth noting (or if his surviving mages get a direct damage spell on you), that Firebelly is dead. He'll deliver his payload for sure, but it likely won't net you back ~180 points.

Now I know the next time he won't keep all his Vampires so close and he might invest in some protection for the Lord rather than buying the Frostblade...

If that is an item he use all the time, especially with the re-roll powers, then Hellheart is a mild counter effect.

Yes, in the past two games he has brought the Frostblade because "it's the only way the Vampire Lord can do enough wounds to Ogres" and it has Red Fury too.... Vampires are very strong. I know next time I will face the Lizardmen, he may even trot out Lore of Shadow to Purple Sun me, I may feel less strongly about removing Hellheart for that. It is definite list tailoring but he denies it and is a close friend so I just suck it up, my lists are all-comers all the time. I explained the defences against Hellheart and there is as much chance of it doing nothing as what it did but it's not a lot of fun when it goes off like it did and you have a room full of your friends moaning about "this is why Fantasy is bad, 50pts item kills 600pts of stuff." Etc....

I get called cheesy when I pull that off with a centrally placed Firebelly packing no other items and he closes in on me, but him taking Wraiths with Ethereal Vampire and Frostblade equipped Vampire seems to be OK.......

I fail to see the problem with this item. If we have to ban all things that can grant you a net 300-500 points win with a lot of luck, let us all ban :

- Dwellers, Purple Sun, Pit of Shades, Transmutation, etc
- Cannons/Catapults (LoS failure)
- Feedback Scroll (3 fives on 6 dices)
- Miscast number 2-4
- Giant attack n°1 and 2

... I mean it has no end.

What will this thing do generally ? One miscast on one character, that will take like a S10 hit or even less and maybe 3 models around him too ? Make him loose 3 power dices ? Because yeah clearly, a miscast is so terrible that all wizards out there do everything to avoid them. Wait ... ?

I got my behind kicked 3 times out of 4 in my first battles with the new book by Empire/Elves Shadow wizards - weaklings - spamming 6 dices Pit/Mindrazor EVERY DARN TURN and PRAYING for IF.

Stop kidding me with this item, please.

I have a rematch arranged now against his Lizardmen, I am not changing my army. I'm looking forward to attempting to Hell Heart the Slann, rolling a 1 for distance and all the whining will stop.

People complaining it blows up their army are being obtuse.  The odds of killing a caster have already been discussed at length elsewhere in this thread, which makes it insignificant in that regard.  Again, a cannon has a better chance of killing a wizard, mathematically, than this item.  Where it is strong is in its ability to shut down one key magic phase later in the game when the other player goes all in and is expecting buffs to carry the day.  Shame on him for doing that, especially if he is aware of the item.  Really, the only army with cause to complain is VC and really it does not hose them as bad as they claim.  I have found it to be an extremely tactical item that requires a lot of positioning and dice rolls to go correctly to get use out of.  If you cannot keep your wizards back from the center, then you are not bringing enough units (or are a deathstar abuser).