Ogre Dirty Tricks (2011)

This is the place to put your dastardly new tricks and combos using the New Ogre book.

I will start the ball rolling

1. Fire-belly + Potion of Speed which allows an I5 Flaming Breathe attack in close combat (not my idea BTW).

2. Another tricksters Shard on a Hunter mounted on a Stone-horn, this is the anti Daemon build maximizing frontage and therefore the number of Daemon ward save re-rolls.

3. BSB Bruiser (Eternal Flame Banner) in with either Leadbelchers or Maneaters with BOH (Flaming shots).

Tyrant with Sword of Swift Striking (for ASF) and Potion of Speed. (I usually add greedy fist and giant breaker for S7)
S7 I7 ASF, take that high elves!

Tyrant with Sword of Swift Striking (for ASF) and Potion of Speed. (I usually add greedy fist and giant breaker for S7)
S7 I7 ASF, take that high elves!

Hell, you don't even need to include the potion. Having ASF will ruin anyone's day.

As someone may have noted elsewhere in this forum, Forbidden Rod in conjunction with a Slaughtermaster with the LotGM, is, while not necessarily a "trick," a damn good synergy.

Gnoblars with trappers in a building.  Every assault means dangerous terrain tests and a stand and shoot from the gnoblars.  Bullgorger them and it's like they have bows!

Tyrant with Sword of Swift Striking (for ASF) and Potion of Speed. (I usually add greedy fist and giant breaker for S7)
S7 I7 ASF, take that high elves!

Hell, you don't even need to include the potion. Having ASF will ruin anyone's day.

My standard tyant build is sword of swift striking, greedyfist, giantbreaker, enchanted shield. This leaves 5 points. I figure potion of foolhardiness is probably what should be taken, but in those odd cases against elves, speed potion will be awesome.

Gnoblars with trappers in a building.  Every assault means dangerous terrain tests and a stand and shoot from the gnoblars.  Bullgorger them and it's like they have bows!

On a similar note, tyrant (or bruiser/hunter) will wallcrusher on the watchtower scenario. Wreck the watchtower after the opponent sticks a unit it it, whatch their hopes, dreams and plans fall to pieces.

Nice one WC! They are also Stubborn with 360 degree LOS.

Looks like the Gnoblars are going to be good in this edition as well.

New Gnoblar Tales will be needed.

Now we are getting really dirty... ready for it?

Slaughtermaster with death magic in a unit of 6-8 sniper and poison maneaters with banner of discipline/Banner of Eternal FLame + hellheart + maybe feedback scroll

This is some of the most dirty you can do with OK, I think. Not many opposing mages are going to live past turn 2 and every single model or character is really in danger!

Combine with 2 scraplaunchers, 2 ironblasters and 2x6 leadbelchers + a nasty gutstar with characters and a ton trapper units, and you have the most dirty OK list possible with the new tools.

For feedback scroll and Hellheart you'd have to put two mages into that ME unit, of course. 

I like this unit:

6 Maneaters,
Heavy Armour,
6 x Brace of Ogre Pistols,
Poisoned Attacks,
Scouts,
Musician, Standardbearer
+  Banner of Eternal Flame

No Regeneration, useful against Monsters, and if you charge their front you'll always have to face a stand&shoot reaction.
And then, after running through a hail of poisoned, flaming bullets, you'll suffer something like 24 flaming, poisoned attacks at S5 I3.
Nice augment spells improving this even further, of course. 

Small units of Gnoblars with Trappers an inch in front of Leadbelchers. The Leadbelchers can fire over the heads of the Gnoblars thanks to true line of sight. Those Gnoblars are a useful speed bump, and a unit of 10 is very cheap.

Greedy Fist, Giant Breaker, and Fencers Blades. +2 strength, +1 attack, and Weapon Skill 10, plus the benefits of a Greedy Fist.

Small units of Gnoblars with Trappers an inch in front of Leadbelchers. The Leadbelchers can fire over the heads of the Gnoblars thanks to true line of sight. Those Gnoblars are a useful speed bump, and a unit of 10 is very cheap.

Greedy Fist, Giant Breaker, and Fencers Blades. +2 strength, +1 attack, and Weapon Skill 10, plus the benefits of a Greedy Fist.

I prefer Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales and Greedy Fist.

Snce I'm generally doing this on my level 4 general, I prefer glittering scales, fencer's blades, earthing rod, ironcurse icon

Gnoblars with trappers in a building.  Every assault means dangerous terrain tests and a stand and shoot from the gnoblars.  Bullgorger them and it's like they have bows!

The trappers only work to charges at the front of the unit. Do units in buildings have a front facing?

I suppose that would be dependent on whether a 360 line of sight counts as front-facing at all times.

I am loving some of the filth coming out, after 5years of trying to squeeze the best out of the old Ogre book.

I'm taking notes

Posted this in another thread, but I think it goes here too:

Gut-Eaters (Maneaters as Super Ironguts for Character bunker)

3x2 formation. All have HA, front rank has xHA, back has nothing special. I'd always give them Stubborn, and Poison, and stick my characters in the unit. Also I'd give the unit the AP Banner.

You'd get +1WS, +1S, , strike at I3, 25 Attacks (vs 19 for the same size IG unit). With AP banner they give the same minus to Armour as GWs, but w/ poison give extra wounds. They kill about 25% more T4 heavy armour dudes then IG's, and kill almost 50% more squishy T3 dudes than IG's.

And did I mention they'd be stubborn? Which is good for your character bunker.

Now we are getting really dirty... ready for it?

Slaughtermaster with death magic in a unit of 6-8 sniper and poison maneaters with banner of discipline/Banner of Eternal FLame + hellheart + maybe feedback scroll

This is some of the most dirty you can do with OK, I think. Not many opposing mages are going to live past turn 2 and every single model or character is really in danger!

I think the sniper thing will get toned down by alert players hiding their characters in bunkers or just behind regular units to make them very hard to hit.

I suppose that would be dependent on whether a 360 line of sight counts as front-facing at all times.

I think that since you chose which models fight during an assault, it's always a front charge. But here comes the question of the multiple charges on a building...

Nope, you can only assault a building with one unit in a turn.  You can't even declare two charges against a building.  That's in the brb.

Hardly original but I like stubborn scouting maneaters with +1 LD banner. Run them 1x3 into a horde you don't want to have to face for awhile, especially nice against more expensive anvils.

Gnoblars with trappers in a building.  Every assault means dangerous terrain tests and a stand and shoot from the gnoblars.  Bullgorger them and it's like they have bows!

The trappers only work to charges at the front of the unit. Do units in buildings have a front facing?

it says that your front arc is 360deg, hence it is always considered a frontal charge :-) go go gnoblars!

Now we are getting really dirty... ready for it?

Slaughtermaster with death magic in a unit of 6-8 sniper and poison maneaters with banner of discipline/Banner of Eternal FLame + hellheart + maybe feedback scroll

This is some of the most dirty you can do with OK, I think. Not many opposing mages are going to live past turn 2 and every single model or character is really in danger!

Combine with 2 scraplaunchers, 2 ironblasters and 2x6 leadbelchers + a nasty gutstar with characters and a ton trapper units, and you have the most dirty OK list possible with the new tools.

So that's over 1000 points in one unit, where one well placed purple sun or pit of shades will halve your unit and have it make a panic test

First round, you start, but you're opponent has set up just over 30 inch.
So no shooting and just the magic - first round is scroll and stop, so no problem.
Then of course the warmachines / magic kicks in.


@MR fantastical:  how are you doing all those attacks with all those characters in the first or second rank?

I have been thinking of a unit with the first rank with extra handweapon and the second rank with great weapons.

Hardly original but I like stubborn scouting maneaters with +1 LD banner. Run them 1x3 into a horde you don't want to have to face for awhile, especially nice against more expensive anvils.

Double post, but new idea:
The problem is your 9 wounds, so probably 3 wide gives your 20mm opponent at least 16 attacks in the first turn.
You'd be dead by the time, you are in your next turn.
And this is before shooting.

I think he meant charge the side of the horde, so 3 models minimum and usually only up to 5 will be able to attack. Depending on the horde, that is usually 3-9 to 5-15 attacks. Chaos Halbred horde with frenzy skewing my numbers a little.

Posted this in another thread, but I think it goes here too:

Gut-Eaters (Maneaters as Super Ironguts for Character bunker)

3x2 formation. All have HA, front rank has xHA, back has nothing special. I'd always give them Stubborn, and Poison, and stick my characters in the unit. Also I'd give the unit the AP Banner.

You'd get +1WS, +1S, , strike at I3, 25 Attacks (vs 19 for the same size IG unit). With AP banner they give the same minus to Armour as GWs, but w/ poison give extra wounds. They kill about 25% more T4 heavy armour dudes then IG's, and kill almost 50% more squishy T3 dudes than IG's.

And did I mention they'd be stubborn? Which is good for your character bunker.

If you are comparing this unit to Ironguts, then you need to factor in just how much mure expensive this unit will be than the equivalent IG unit...

@MR fantastical:  how are you doing all those attacks with all those characters in the first or second rank?

I have been thinking of a unit with the first rank with extra handweapon and the second rank with great weapons.

Just Maneaters vs IG's no characters: FC on both, and addtional Had weapons on the front rank on Maneaters.

Maneater front rank with xHA would get 16 attacks (5A for SB, 5 for Musician, and 6 for Champion), and then 9 more attacks for support.

You can give the back rank GW's for a little extra punch, but that will cost you an additional 33 points when more then likely 2 of them are going to die before they strike. So that's why I didn't do it.

If you are comparing this unit to Ironguts, then you need to factor in just how much mure expensive this unit will be than the equivalent IG unit...

Sure thing...
6 Ironguts with FC = 288 (No Magic Banner)
6 Guteaters = 405 (so about 19.5 points per model more)

Sure thing...
6 Ironguts with FC = 288 (No Magic Banner)
6 Guteaters = 405 (so about 19.5 points per model more)

That is a lot.

That's all I'm saying...

Yeah I meant 1 wide 3+ deep means 9-12 attacks against if in horde or spears or 6-8 if not.  Might work better with ironfists. Definitely would not work against str 5+ units, although would be pretty decent against monsters depending on the number of attacks.

Now we are getting really dirty... ready for it?

Slaughtermaster with death magic in a unit of 6-8 sniper and poison maneaters with banner of discipline/Banner of Eternal FLame + hellheart + maybe feedback scroll

This is some of the most dirty you can do with OK, I think. Not many opposing mages are going to live past turn 2 and every single model or character is really in danger!

Combine with 2 scraplaunchers, 2 ironblasters and 2x6 leadbelchers + a nasty gutstar with characters and a ton trapper units, and you have the most dirty OK list possible with the new tools.

So that's over 1000 points in one unit, where one well placed purple sun or pit of shades will halve your unit and have it make a panic test

First round, you start, but you're opponent has set up just over 30 inch.
So no shooting and just the magic - first round is scroll and stop, so no problem.
Then of course the warmachines / magic kicks in.

Really - Ill definately take my chances there. LDS9 rerollable doesnt fail that often. If the enemy mage is within range for purple sun or pit of shades, he is most definately within range of all shooting, magic, helheart and sniping. I just dont think that any opposing list, except possibly a Nuln Empire Army with many arch lectors would dare to hang back against this kind of ogre list.

But we will know soon enough - I am testing the list for fun next time my mates and I have a game. My idea is to test different types of Ogre army lists, and see how they compare.

Sure thing...
6 Ironguts with FC = 288 (No Magic Banner)
6 Guteaters = 405 (so about 19.5 points per model more)

That is a lot.

That's all I'm saying...

Yes but for 19.5 per model your effectively getting crown of command, improve damage output via better WS, more attacks, poison, more strength, AP on the impact hits/stomps/attacks of all models. On average you should be able to overun a 5x5 WoC warrior block if you charge, which is something I can't do with IG currently.

I'm just sayin....

Oh, you are absolutely not wrong. They may well be worth those extra points when compared to Ironguts. But, it does limit what else you can have in your army. Are they better than that unit of Ironguts with their own personal Butcher for Wildform? Better than the IGs with a Scraplauncher? With a unit of Bulls? Or a bigger unit of guts?

I plan to take Mournfangs at the moment, so I can't really bring myself to take another low model count expensive unit. Not saying that you shouldn't, just that you need to see those extra points in the context of the army rather than in a unit to unit comparison.

Lots of good ones. I want to try this.

Unit of 6 Yhetees.
SM with Lore of Death
Firebelly

Charge the dreaded horde of Skaven/ empire halberds/ goblins/ ect. T3 guys that are not immune to fear
Cast Doom and darkness on them
Cast flaming sword on the Yhetees (irony is deadly)
They fail their fear check at -3 LD hopefully. Making them WS1 the yhetees then make them WS 0
You auto hit 18 times
You auto wound 18 times +3 stomps

Its a lot of hoops to jump through, but it would be worth it to see the look on your oponents face.

Lots of good ones. I want to try this.

Unit of 6 Yhetees.
SM with Lore of Death
Firebelly

Charge the dreaded horde of Skaven/ empire halberds/ goblins/ ect. T3 guys that are not immune to fear
Cast Doom and darkness on them
Cast flaming sword on the Yhetees (irony is deadly)
They fail their fear check at -3 LD hopefully. Making them WS1 the yhetees then make them WS 0
You auto hit 18 times
You auto wound 18 times +3 stomps

Its a lot of hoops to jump through, but it would be worth it to see the look on your oponents face.

need a butcher with the maw lore for this...

Hell, I'm just glad man-eaters are viable again! As for comparing man-eaters and iron guts, for me it depends on what I'm looking to spend on a list. If I have a lot of points, I'll go with lots of both. If I'm budgeting, I'll go big block of guts, small block eaters. The eaters are crazy versatile now, useful for so many things. I'm looking forward to trying everything. As for dirty tricks... I'm going with tons of ten pack gnoblars, with and without trappers. Running interference in front of my killers. I have to be REALLY cagey with positioning in early turns so I don't f myself. It also will let me out drop my opponent in deployment and keep scouts out of my backfield.

need a butcher with the maw lore for this...

For the army list yes. I just listed what you need to do the combo.

...Regenerating Gnoblar Horde.

need a butcher with the maw lore for this...

For the army list yes. I just listed what you need to do the combo.

ah ok. Its a very good combo that i hadnt really considered. death lore scares me in case i miscast the Psun, but D&D sounds fantastic for forcing failed ld tests...damn i have to rethink my whole 2200 list again...

unit of 2 or 3 Hunters with 10 Sabertuks which gain Vanguard & Swiftstride
unit of 6+ Vanguard Maneaters
unit of 6+ Scouting Maneaters
(arm and apply second special rules as you see fit)
give opponent 1st turn if at all possible

you start your turn with 3 big heavy hitting units within 12.1" of the enemy.....

Is this WS0 thing with Fear and Aura of Frost (or whatever the name is) confirmed ? What are we basing ourselves apart from hope ?

Isn't this one of the "player whose turn it is decides" cases? If it is your turn, you say fear is handled first, reducing WS to 1, then the Yheetie aura reducing it to 0. A similar thing is possible with Nurgle WoC, never used it myself, though. (so I could explain it a bit wrong  )

Slaughterman, your idea sounds scary indeed. Even more if you play against anything without much shooting, like VC or TK (if TK play with little shooting).

Lots of good ones. I want to try this.

Unit of 6 Yhetees.
SM with Lore of Death
Firebelly

Charge the dreaded horde of Skaven/ empire halberds/ goblins/ ect. T3 guys that are not immune to fear
Cast Doom and darkness on them
Cast flaming sword on the Yhetees (irony is deadly)
They fail their fear check at -3 LD hopefully. Making them WS1 the yhetees then make them WS 0
You auto hit 18 times
You auto wound 18 times +3 stomps

Its a lot of hoops to jump through, but it would be worth it to see the look on your oponents face.

you will still have to roll +2 to wound (always)
so you can leave flaming sword behind

A 1 to wound isn't an automatic failure, see last FAQ. So if you wound on 2+ and have a +1 to wound spell or something, you indeed auto-wound.

Can the WS really be brought down to 0 ? And based on which rule can we infer that attacking a WS0 opponent does auto-hit ?

WS0, if it can be achieved, results in getting auto-hit.  That's in the brb near the front where it talks about characteristics.

Yhettes vs. Zombies is always going to be good for a laugh

The order on the stacking of fear and aura of frost is the only debatable point ansone I'd like to see answered in a GW FAQ just for the sake of clairty.

Well if WS0 can be achieved (in general) AND it works as depicted here, then it will work with Yhettees indeed.

The wording for the Aura of Frost says that any model in base contact with Yhettees suffers a -1 in CC penalty. There is no "when" it applies, it applies as long as the model is in base contact. So, before the Fear test, the model is at -1 CC, and after the test it still is.

That will say that if he peasses his Ld Test, then he has WS - 1, and if he fails it, he's at WS 0. Great find !

As previouslys confirmed:
WS 0 is an auto hit, BRB pg4.
If you wound on a 2+ with +1  to wound you do auto wound. This is in the BRB erata

I will concede that the stacking of fear and frost aura is debatable. Yet another thing to add to the list of errata. However, I assume it would be up to the player whos turn it is to decide, as a lot of things like that usually are.

Dirty tricks and dirty tricks. I find most posts here gimmicky at best, and not near the dirty tricks we used to see (Skullmantle+Brahmir statue Braingobbler spam VS Beastmen, Skaven, CD, and WoC, and the yhetee pelt/glittering scales/mawseeker+trollguts indestructable tyrant general)

Best possible dirty trick with the book would probably be the already discovered 4 IF/HA/Dragonhide mournfangs, which plows through light-medium infantry with ease.

I do however find this a good thing. It's not like we can take something like the DE pendant lord, and looking at your ideas, I think regular combinations and synergy (Gutstar backed up by tusk supported by fast stuff for example) would in many cases be just as useful, which in my opinion confirms that the new book is very well written when it comes to internal balance.

I will however try out this in a SOM game sometime soon, let me introduce the Flyrant:

Tyrant, GW, HA Charmed Shield, Arabian Carpet, Talisman of Preservation.

Not that this couldn't be done before though... Just never tried it, and think it could be really good, but pretty much only Viable in SoM, I think.

How about a dozen 10 man gnoblar units with trappers stacked in such a manner that any overrun of one puts you into at least another one? That's a lot of difficult terrain test you could potentially be forcing not to mention the sort of movement control that many re-directors gives you. Plus they can Stand and Shoot anything charging their front for some random kills as well.

Best thing? They're cheap. Each ten man is 50 points.

How about a dozen 10 man gnoblar units with trappers stacked in such a manner that any overrun of one puts you into at least another one? That's a lot of difficult terrain test you could potentially be forcing not to mention the sort of movement control that many re-directors gives you. Plus they can Stand and Shoot anything charging their front for some random kills as well.

Best thing? They're cheap. Each ten man is 50 points.

Combine that with a lore of beast SM to make them fail on a 5+ and its twice as good.

And if you do that, then in the end most of the units of gnoblars are gone in a few turns.

Worst thing is, you have to get out of the range of the Tyrant's leadership  (charged by terror causers) and you have to position so, that you don't get a flank or rear charge.

Not to mention flyers.

I will concede that the stacking of fear and frost aura is debatable. Yet another thing to add to the list of errata. However, I assume it would be up to the player whos turn it is to decide, as a lot of things like that usually are.

The -1 WS is permanent and always active, so it shouldn't be a matter of which is "applied" first, because it is always applied?
So -1WS, Fail fear = WS 1, then still -1 WS because the aura is persistent. But perhaps it's just the player turn. 

'Got a nasty/funny one. I call it "The tower of doom".

Take a tower, or a Fozzrik's Folding Fortress if you can afford it (halas, our lords are a little too costly for that kind of waste). Then, put a unit of Leadies in there, 6-8 should be enough. And rain some death from above.

You're allowed to shoot with 5 leadies per floor every turn (your opponent might argue you can have only one or two, but nothing in rules or FAQ applies the "monstruous infantry count for three models" to shooting, only close combat), with a nice 360° angle and 24 inch range. Leadies are protected by hard cover, and if your opponent dares to take them in combat, it's three ogres versus 10 thinlings. You can also put a Firebelly to increase the firepower even more.


That's nasty by itself, but down right ridiculous in Storm of Magic. Take the Fozzrik's Floating Fortress, the extremely costly but more mobile pocket tower. Now, your leadies can still shoot, but the tower will also shoot (at least some fire breath, but also short-ranged S3 hits). And if you achieve Dominance, anyone who dares to take close combat will regret it (2D6 S10 hit). Oh, and did I mention that the tower can float 10' every turn, allowing you to cripple with lead everything you need? Or even going to hunt wizards on their annoyingly protected fulcrums? 

Seriously, it's cheesy in a comical way, not exactly overpowered. But if you play a high-point SoM game, having a dozen leadies in a Floating Fortress of Doom might be just enough to scare your opponent to death... 

Unless they have... any artillery. Or elite infantry. Or fireballs.

Buildings are deathtraps for Ogres. One cannonball that hits the building inflicts D6 hits on your unit each doing D6 wounds! If you're charged by, say, chaos warriors, you have to fight off 40-odd attacks when only 3 of your troops can actually attack back.

... Ironcurse Icon? *weep*

That's what I get for playing against players who don't field anything more threatening than a bolt thrower. Oh well. It's still ridiculously awesome.

Did the Iron Curse stop the Bolt thrower? lol

Unless they have... any artillery. Or elite infantry. Or fireballs.

Buildings are deathtraps for Ogres. One cannonball that hits the building inflicts D6 hits on your unit each doing D6 wounds! If you're charged by, say, chaos warriors, you have to fight off 40-odd attacks when only 3 of your troops can actually attack back.

+1 here. Monstrous infantry wasn't given high consideration when it came to buildings rules.

As it shouldn't be.
That would be a challenge: okay guys, get into the building, we should all fit

I just wish that Giant-sized models could attack the tower from the outside... reach in windows King-Kong style while other troops use the front door.  My giant standing by the watchtower waiting his turn while the Ogres charge in is always sad...

That would indeed be cool...

A 1 to wound isn't an automatic failure, see last FAQ. So if you wound on 2+ and have a +1 to wound spell or something, you indeed auto-wound.

Can the WS really be brought down to 0 ? And based on which rule can we infer that attacking a WS0 opponent does auto-hit ?

I have been trying to find this in he FAQ but I must be missing it.  Can you point out what it is under or maybe a key word I can search? 

OH, I found it!

Thanks

A dirty trick against ogres: Use Siverjir's Hex scroll on Firebelly before he can use his breath and smash him to death. A cheap way to take him out.

:-)

A dirty trick against ogres: Use Siverjir's Hex scroll on Firebelly before he can use his breath and smash him to death. A cheap way to take him out.

:-)

I am thinking a Ward save is needed on this guy.

A dirty trick against ogres: Use Siverjir's Hex scroll on Firebelly before he can use his breath and smash him to death. A cheap way to take him out.

:-)

That's a dirty trick you can pull on anyone.

"I am thinking a Ward save is needed on this guy."


I hear ya, potion of speed to get that I5 breath weapon off, talisman of preservation to keep him alive from shooting/magic. Keep a champion in the unit for challenges. Fry unit fry.

...and another good reason for the DH Banner, Re-roll 1's for your 4+ ward save on the charge turn. You'll only fail your ward save on a 2 or 3.

My Firebelly goes in a unit of 8 Ogres without champion so that I'm not forced to place him in the 2nd rank and therefore unable to use the "flamer" template.

In many cases the 2d6 hits in CC will do just fine, but being able to use the template is a nice option to have.

My Firebelly goes in a unit of 8 Ogres without champion so that I'm not forced to place him in the 2nd rank and therefore unable to use the "flamer" template.

In many cases the 2d6 hits in CC will do just fine, but being able to use the template is a nice option to have.

I drop the standard rather than the champ, the firebelly cannot be forced into a challenge then when I want to torch the unit.

Our ogres are all grown up... moving on to cooking their food before they eat it!

Our ogres are all grown up... moving on to cooking their food before they eat it!

LOL! made my morning

Big unit with a butcher and a firebelly?... Starting to sound like my family reunion...

Big unit with a butcher and a firebelly?... Starting to sound like my family reunion...

A nice barbecue in the park.

Not a 'trick' as such but combinations of Hellheart, Feedback Scroll, Death magic and Sniping maneaters = BAD news for enemy spellcasters.


Also with multiple Str boosts available, a big Gnoblar unit with str boosts can get a very scary ranged attack (my lizards do something similar with str 4 javelins on skink units).


There is still the (in)famous Maneater + Characters trick. Maneaters get stubborn and can't be hit as characters go in the front. Not as good as it was now maneaters are 3+.


Again, not a trick but a 'nice' combo is Thundertusk near a Tyrant who has sword of bloodshed (+3A) and Potion of Strength... enemy strikes last after taking 8 str 8 attacks.

Well if you want to go head on with a big unit of chosen with halbards and rip them appart. Unit of 7 maneaters, swifstride/poison with great weapons including the dragonhide banner (hoping you get the charge) and having the thundertusk within 6 inches of the enemy. Both units will attack simultaneously no matter what the init is. That is 25 poison attacks which can be rerolled at str 7 which also can be rerolled. I have never seen my friend swear as much. Trust me, you won't need stuborn when your done  lol

Personally, I find it overkill

Did his Chosen have a 3+ ward save?

I can't imagine an equal points of maneaters even with the thundertusk would even dent a properly tooled up chosenstar.

Even my old-fashioned death star with T6 in the front rank, ward saves, other trickster's shard and all that could only just about break even against a chosenstar (literally, the two units ground each other down to the last man several times).

death magic -3 ld test and then the maw panic test can push a solid unit right off the board. hard to do but worth it. if the panic test is stopped, focus fire shooting onto it and try and force a panic test. i love death magic for ogres.

No ward save, frenzy and a + 1 str

...Then why the heck did he bring Chosen? Might as well have just suited up with Warriors and Halberds... Hedging your bets for Divine Greatness is ridiculously easy, and even if you don't get it you should have a Warshrine around anyway.

Okies place 2 Gnoblar units with trapper upgrades within an inch of each other and with a narrow frontage.

When the opponent charges you from the front they will have to do 2 difficult  terrain tests twice once for each unit.

Not a bad idea, can you also stand and shoot with each unit with Thrown Weapons? (Str 2 but still might kill a couple). And if so, run x10?

I'm sure everyone and their mother has thought of this one:

4-8 Maneaters (depending on point range of game) with scout, stubborn, brace, and dragonhide banner. They can deploy on someones flank, shoot the first round, and then enjoy the benefits of the banner when they charge! The brace also gives them extra attacks at str 5!

Okies place 2 Gnoblar units with trapper upgrades within an inch of each other and with a narrow frontage.

When the opponent charges you from the front they will have to do 2 difficult  terrain tests twice once for each unit.

Ooh, that could be made quite cheesy depending on how narrow a frontage you make. Three with a frontage of 2 could be awkward. However, note that if you have two units side by side it's pretty rare that they both have to be charged. You'd need to bracket them with terrain or something.

You still have to deploy the Gnoblar units 1" apart but in front of a hoard could be very nice!

Yes they can both stand and shoot.

4 units of minimum Gnoblars with Trappers = 200 points.

2 wide, 5 deep=4 DTs per model.

Killing 51.7% of the enemy unit? Priceless.

Loving those Stats Grey Templar, cries of Cheese from our Opponents I can see it now.

don't get too excited. A cleaver opponent will either feed a cheap unit for the purpose or reform so he won't face all the units in one charge. could be used to pwn noobs though, but what fun is that?

4 units of minimum Gnoblars with Trappers = 200 points.

2 wide, 5 deep=4 DTs per model.

Killing 51.7% of the enemy unit? Priceless.

That doesn't sound that great once you lay it out... You only break even if you can get a 400 point unit to bounce through them all.

I can see myself taking two units of ten to place in front of my TK playing opponents chariot hoard. OK it`s not really a hoard but 6 TK chariots can do a lot of hurt on the charge. Won`t he be surprised by that! Could keep him tied up for a good part of the game.

4 units of minimum Gnoblars with Trappers = 200 points.

2 wide, 5 deep=4 DTs per model.

Killing 51.7% of the enemy unit? Priceless.

That doesn't sound that great once you lay it out... You only break even if you can get a 400 point unit to bounce through them all.

Hey, Chosenstars and GG bunkers are well worth doing this to.

Where I play blocks of 30 Grave-guard & Ghouls, 40+ Beastigors, 30+ Bloodletters & 18+WoC are common.

If the Gnoblar speed bumps deter these blocks from charging then more time to shoot and Magic them before proper combat.

Even if they don't charge the Gnoblars but instead blast them off the table with magic and/or shooting, that's still damage they absorb instead of the Ogres hurting.

My setup with a SoM game is the greedy fist on a SM, and the hellheart on a butcher - if someone cones near me to take a fulcrum, they either get their wizard level reduced or their brains exploded by a miscast or two. The local dark elf player hated me for that setup. Especially when I went fulcrum hunting with my SM.

I am running 9 ogres with ironfists and bsb with stubborn crown. 5 wide and rarely failing my ld test, cheaper than a hoard and twice as hard to move!

Even if they don't charge the Gnoblars but instead blast them off the table with magic and/or shooting, that's still damage they absorb instead of the Ogres hurting.

And as an additional benifit the unit I was blocking hasn't moved at all, rather then what they would have if they had charged me and overran/persued.

The multi-DT is a nasty combo, but dwarves never charge me.  Well, hardly ever. Chaos like to charge me all the time though, and I agree that most likely only inexperienced players will find the gnoblar spam to be a difficult venture. If my maneaters/ironblasters/LB's snipe out the long-range problems, however, it can be a sit-and-wait block of cheese. I could see a clever opponent reforming his unit to be thin enough to only hit one gnoblar unit, but he'd face dire consequences to leave his unit like that.

I propose a no-flank, wide frontage strategy - that is,  don't give your opponent charge-able flanks for him to exploit, and make your gnoblar torpedos covering more area than the actual width of the unit. This way, in theory, he'd have to be further aways from your ogres in order to charge only one gnoblar unit, putting him in a spot in which he can easily be countered. Even if this strategy doesn't work, you are forcing your friend to charge 10-man units of the most worthless creatures in the warhammer world.

Gnoblar spam seems similar to Goblin fanatics in a funny sort of way, mainly a deterrent.

Dirty Trick - A horde-size unit of maneaters with Scouts, Poisoned Atk's and BoP's. "Fer Laughs."

How 'bout a 6x3 of Yhetees? Go ahead and Purple Sun my Death Star, 66% will live! On top of that, there's already a handful of effective tricks previously mentioned with Yhetees.

Now I'm wondering how many 2x5 gnob units I could take and still run enough ogres...

Dirty Trick - A horde-size unit of maneaters with Scouts, Poisoned Atk's and BoP's. "Fer Laughs."

How 'bout a 6x3 of Yhetees? Go ahead and Purple Sun my Death Star, 66% will live! On top of that, there's already a handful of effective tricks previously mentioned with Yhetees.

Now I'm wondering how many 2x5 gnob units I could take and still run enough ogres...

Try this Gnoblar list for size.
http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php?topic=21215.0

What about a BSB bruiser with the banner of swiftness and the longstrider big name in a unit of Yhetees making them M8?

Dirty Trick - A horde-size unit of maneaters with Scouts, Poisoned Atk's and BoP's. "Fer Laughs."

How 'bout a 6x3 of Yhetees? Go ahead and Purple Sun my Death Star, 66% will live! On top of that, there's already a handful of effective tricks previously mentioned with Yhetees.

Now I'm wondering how many 2x5 gnob units I could take and still run enough ogres...

Do most of these Yhetee tricks involve a block of 3 or 6? I have 3 painted, would really rather not have to paint more, sigh.

Most yhetee tricks are unrealistic since it assumes people actually bought more than 3.

Scary tactic - send waves of sabretusks 10-strong and with a slaughtermaster who's centralized pretty well with buff range to these units, constantly cast toothcracker and/or trollguts. 210 pt units with 30 S4 attacks, then make them surviveable with a buff spell. I4 is nothing to sneeze at, and these units can shoot out like missles to whittle down units until they encounter one of your hordes. Granted, no stomps or impact hits but they can still massacre things like champs. The ws4 is surprising too.

i want to take large sabre units but ld4 just scares me. even with 10...i just dont know. for that cost you could get:

6 bulls with IF
or
4.88 ironguts
or
3 maneaters with brace, hvy armour.

now if they were troops it would be golden. too much competition in specials for me.

It's the initative score that really sells them, since not a lot will strike before them. 30 attacks for 210 pts is not so easily replicated. No way for me to test it though, so I can't defend it too much.

Found a loophole - the brb on page 172 says wizards can have magic armour if their army list entry shows they come with mundane armour or have the option to purchase mundane armour. Butchers/sm's have ironfist options. Page 172 of the brb mentions shields as an example of armour. This is one of those "zomg" moments for me, however since this site is thankfully more proper I will simply applaud in a modest manner as if observing a game of golf.

Butcher-don't-die! build: slaughtermaster has the armour of silvered steel, dawnstone and talisman of endurance. Bam! Won't go down.

210 pt units with 30 S4 attacks

Only 30 attacks if you're 10 models wide (and get everyone in base contact) as they only get 1 supporting attack.
I'd consider going with 1 unit 10 strong for each hunter on foot.

unit of 2 or 3 Hunters with 10 Sabertuks which gain Vanguard & Swiftstride
unit of 6+ Vanguard Maneaters
unit of 6+ Scouting Maneaters
(arm and apply second special rules as you see fit)
give opponent 1st turn if at all possible

you start your turn with 3 big heavy hitting units within 12.1" of the enemy.....

A unit of 4 sabretusks, led by a hunter ( equip to taste )
A unit of Vanguard Maneaters ( second rule & equip to taste )
Two units of 3 MFC (IF & HA )
A stonehorn.

All this running down the same flank.

I bummed this off other site, with a Ogre forum.

I'm still testing out options, but my mock battles say this tactic is stupid-killy 

***

Forgot one!

Place a thundertusk in the middle of your force. Your core/melee units on either side of it, but ever so slightly forward.
If done correctly, the TT's aura will give ASL to anyone foolish enough to charge your line!

I'm pretty sure people thought about this already, but I still wanted to share 

***

Found the post! ...

Scroll down to post #6

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/ogre-kingdoms/215207-hunters.html

Forgot one!

Place a thundertusk in the middle of your force. Your core/melee units on either side of it, but ever so slightly forward.
If done correctly, the TT's aura will give ASL to anyone foolish enough to charge your line!

I'm pretty sure people thought about this already, but I still wanted to share 

Doesn't really work as the monster base is huge and his ASL affects models, not units.

Solo Golgfag + Arabyan Carpet. (You need to roll a 5 on 2d6.)

Vanguard 12", march 20" (Movement Turn 1: 32")

Vanguard 12", charge with Swiftstride (possible charge range Turn 1: 24"-34")

You are for sure in the opponents flanks and unless the war machines are hugging the far rear of their DZ, you're all over them as well. Just don't get shot turn 1 if you want the charge.

210 pt units with 30 S4 attacks

Only 30 attacks if you're 10 models wide (and get everyone in base contact) as they only get 1 supporting attack.
I'd consider going with 1 unit 10 strong for each hunter on foot.

Gasp! I overlooked the obvious. Borgrogh needs to stick to what he knows, not offering tactics on unfamiliar models. (Thanks for pointing that out sir)

Solo Golgfag + Arabyan Carpet. (You need to roll a 5 on 2d6.)

Vanguard 12", march 20" (Movement Turn 1: 32")

Although I expect it to be FAQed in some fashion, Golgfag doesn't have Vanguard or Stubborn.

Built for fun and was mildly effective:

Tyrant
-longstrider
-Fencers
-ToTS
-Dragonbane Gem
-Glittering scales
Yhetees x5

Anything with WS5 of lower hits on 6s, Anything with SW 6 or higher hits on 5s.  Unit is fast and has the UMPH needed to break most other flanking units.  Ran in a Dual Tyrant list.

Perhaps I'm crazy but:

A unit of 3 Yhetees or 6 Yhetees with champ.
If your opponent gets Purple Sun (or has a chance of getting it), deploy your Deathstar characters in the Yhetee unit instead (with LoG on the BSB).
They lose swiftstride and 1M, but gain impact hits (with increased strength from rank(s)) from at least 2 ogre characters in the front rank (if you have a champ and want to keep BSB in second rank for some reason - like affecting some models with the Aura of Frost). Not to mention the supporting attacks would be quite good at S5 and I4. And you can potentially block out flaming melee from the yhetees in combat for as long as you have 3 characters alive.

If the threat is over (or too many Yhetees died for LoS!), you can just move the characters over to their usual unit if needed.

(   BTW - do you need to specify the number of units at a tournament? Or can you write 6 Yhetees (1 champ) and deploy them in two units of 3, one with champ in some games and as one unit of 6 in others?
You're not changing the list, but moving about models that you've already paid for and are included on the roster?  )

BTW - do you need to specify the number of units at a tournament? Or can you write 6 Yhetees (1 champ) and deploy them in two units of 3, one with champ in some games and as one unit of 6 in others?
You're not changing the list, but moving about models that you've already paid for and are included on the roster?

Check with your local TO, but 99% of the time you must list out each unit and everything in it.  Skaven can't write down '300 slaves' and then divide them into groups as they see fit during deployment.

Skaven can't write down '300 slaves' and then divide them into groups as they see fit during deployment.

It wouldn't really surprise me if Skaven had a rule saying slaves could do just that, I mean, it's not like they're cheesy already

Slaughtermaster plus gruts sickle and earthing rod.

All spells are +6 to cast and re-roll miscasts!

Unit of 4 maneaters full command, Additional hand weapons scout and stubborn, another unit of 4 maneaters full command, additional hand weapons vangaurd and poison. Each unit comes from different directions forcing your opponent to either face these units or suffer the consequences! Whilst they run either side of the table, you run up your blocks of infantry and smack him from all side!!!

Slaughtermaster plus gruts sickle and earthing rod.

2 Arcane items = Nice...

Check with your local TO, but 99% of the time you must list out each unit and everything in it.  Skaven can't write down '300 slaves' and then divide them into groups as they see fit during deployment.

Aww.
It's a shame because it adds more to the game - just like deploying your characters in different units depending on the circumstances. And not unrealistic either, you've got the same army but the general shifts around them to make the best of things. Oh well.

Sorry, what I meant was one caster with gruts sickle so 6+ to cast, one caster with earthing rod.

The model with the lvl 4 and sickle needs less dice to throw, so will miscast less, and the other model can throw lots of dice and if necessary can re-roll miscasts.

Super magic phase.

The ultimate combo units are a unit of 6 mournfangs and a unit of maneaters scout stubborn!

You pop your scouts to the flank, with the mournfangs in front of the same unit, in turn 1, your opponent has to turn and give the flank to one of these units. Both charge the unit and wipe it out, moving on to the next.

Whilst that is happening, your big units are moving up in the middle or other side. You force your opponent to a) make a difficult choice from the start b) split his army up the way you want.

Throw in the slaughtermaster with gruts sickle using Lore of the Gut Maw making his spells +7 easy to cast the Maw with big template, so anything else is even easier to cast.

Now that is a dirty army!

The ultimate combo units are a unit of 6 mournfangs and a unit of maneaters scout stubborn!

As far as I'm aware Monstrous Cavalry can only make one Supporting Attack from rider and none from the mount, so are you sure this is such a good idea? You're spending between 180 pts (no upgrades) and 219 pts (heavy armour and great weapon, I seem to remember GW = 8 pts) on getting a whopping THREE extra attacks in close combat. Granted, you get the extra wounds, but seeing as Mournfangs should get into combat ASAP and they have a lot of Impact Hits, is this really worth the points? My experience says no - simply because we have so many other outstanding models/units to spend our points on.

Check the FAQs, Monstruous cavalry have Monstruous support for their riders. Mounts still can't make support attacks, but at least it is a little something.

I'm thinking about Mournfangs in 2x3 or 2x4 just to make the most out of the Dragonhide Banner, but you lose more potential than what you gain.
   I.e. 9-12 supporting attacks vs. another unit of Mournfangs that dish out 12-16 more attacks from the fangs and actually does impact hits (the supporting rank does nothing for impact hits) and stomps.