Thundermace exploit, maybe

I was reading the magic item section really trying to think of ways to make them not suck.

"The wielder may choose to exchange all of his attacks in close combat to make a single 'thundercrush attack'"
Nothing preventing you from using it in the second rank. Right?

"Roll To Hit against the highest weapon skill amongst the enemy models in base contact."
That would be zero. Right?
So it auto hits if used from the second rank?

Also keep in mind it wouldn't hurt the ogres in the front rank because they are not infantry, war beasts or swarms. Its silly and still not worth it, but its something I noticed may need a ruling or errata.

This is pretty much covered in the Tomb Kings Faq.  The warsphinxes Thundercrush attack cannot be placed in such a way as to affect friendly models.  Same thing here.

Also, I believe models in the second row are considered to be in base contact with anything that is in base contact with the models in front of them for the purpose of supporting attacks. (Wording? )

You realize its MASSIVE either way.  Small template hits 21 infantry models.  Thats 21 S3 attacks on a three or better.  Best thing in the game IMO.  Especiallt because itd not a gamble with us.  If thundercrush misses, the Tyrants unit has supporting attacks to hold combat.

It can hit friendlys. It says it in the description. As for base contact, the brb says you attack modles in base to base with the modle in front of you. It dosnt say you count as basing them.

However the Thundermace could be good in with the Dragonhide Banner.

Re-rolling 1's to hit and to wound

I think you should use the modle in the front ranks  weapon skill, but it isn't clear. I would never actually try to pull that in a game. I will be testing out a SM with lore of death and thundermace. Lower LD by 3 is good for fear checks and lower toughness by one is good for thundermace.

Had this discussion months ago.  Having no enemies in B2B is not the same as being in contact with WS0 enemies.  When there are no enemies in B2B, the highest enemy WS in B2B is undefined.  The conditions are ill-posed.

The Thundermace gives permission to place it over friendly models.

Had this discussion months ago.  Having no enemies in B2B is not the same as being in contact with WS0 enemies.  When there are no enemies in B2B, the highest enemy WS in B2B is undefined.  The conditions are ill-posed.

True, I guess that would make it unusable in the second rank.

"Supporting attacks are made against models in base contact with the front rank model that is being fought 'through"" p49

I'd say that's pretty clear that a supporting thundercrush attack just uses the WS of the models in base contact with the model in front. The "attack" is "made against" the weapon skill of models in contact, right?

Even if this DID work, you'd be putting the hole over a friendly model (taking a S9, D3 wounds hit!) and losing over half the template.

You realize its MASSIVE either way.  Small template hits 21 infantry models.  Thats 21 S3 attacks on a three or better.  Best thing in the game IMO.  Especiallt because itd not a gamble with us.  If thundercrush misses, the Tyrants unit has supporting attacks to hold combat.

Pff. I didn't take the Thundermace back in the old book. Now it's massively increased in price, only affects "small"things and the strength went down and does less wounds under the hole too.

Might be tempting in conjunction with the dragonhide though. Hadn't thought of that. That brings the probability of hitting WS5 or lower troops (assuming carried by a tyrant) up to 2/3+1/6*2/3 = 7/9 and considerably increases the chance of wounding.

Might be funny now and again, but not for serious work.

Any other troop type beneath the template is too big to be crushed ( anything other than infantry, war beasts or swarm).

So it looks like it does no damage to anything in our book other than sabertusks, and gnoblars.

Ah that's true. Then it would work from the second rank without squishing the front. Not saying it hits automatically though.

"Supporting attacks are made against models in base contact with the front rank model that is being fought 'through"" p49

I'd say that's pretty clear that a supporting thundercrush attack just uses the WS of the models in base contact with the model in front. The "attack" is "made against" the weapon skill of models in contact, right?

You realize its MASSIVE either way.  Small template hits 21 infantry models.  Thats 21 S3 attacks on a three or better.  Best thing in the game IMO.  Especiallt because itd not a gamble with us.  If thundercrush misses, the Tyrants unit has supporting attacks to hold combat.

Pff. I didn't take the Thundermace back in the old book. Now it's massively increased in price, only affects "small"things and the strength went down and does less wounds under the hole too.

Might be tempting in conjunction with the dragonhide though. Hadn't thought of that. That brings the probability of hitting WS5 or lower troops (assuming carried by a tyrant) up to 2/3+1/6*2/3 = 7/9 and considerably increases the chance of wounding.

I can see an argument for being able to place the small template using the front rank model as the wielder since you were given permission to make supporting attacks "through" the front model.

The majority of the hole should be on their front rank if your in the second rank of an ogre unit. It's a good way to hot characters with it. If you can hit.

Really? The template is 3" wide. The hole is therefore 1.5" away from your base at best. 1.5" is 38.1mm. It shouldn't be possible to place the template without hitting the ogre in front with the hole (even if they're not affected!).

Here's an interesting question:  can you use the attack in a challenge to inflict s9 d3 wounds on the challenger and still inflict ~10 s3 hits on models outside the challenge?

Gutlord, I ranked up some modles and took a look. It apeared to be about 70% over the enemy modle.

I don't think it would work any differently in a challenge right now, but the erata is probably going to prohibit that.

What it comes down to is how many mm wide is the hole.