Mournfang Cav?

So...did anyone else come to the startling realization that Mournfang Cav, as we know it, are ridiculously powerful? Here's a write-up I put on Warseer:

Mournfang Cavalry are quite nice, actually. They have swiftstride as far as I can tell, something we don't have for normal ogre's. And they can get a right knightly save of 2+...and they are like the only cav unit that get's parry save? >

Not only that, but they hit like ******* mac trucks...in fact, I think they outstrip regular ogre's by a large margin now that I actually consider the stats:

*Always d3 impact hits
*Swiftstride
*4 extra attacks at +1str of the ogre
*Option for 2+ armor save with a parry or GW's
*Move faster (not sure if they are just like 7 or 8, or a nice 9...either way the swiftstride is what helps overall)
*Benefit greatly from Dragonhide banner...(nearly) unfailable armor save on charge, and (nearly) always wound certain troops

All this for only twice the cost of an Ogre? The only downside is the 10mm larger base...the retarded flank size, and some people do not like the models (I do...I love almost everything GW has done since 8th).

This is one of the few cavalry units in the game that can still do what cav did in 7th...charge the front and win! Steadfast isn't a problem if you kill enough of their guys after all . Besides, regular ogre units have to contend with steadfast just the same...but Mournfang are crazy survivable and dish out insane numbers of attacks.

Oh ya..+1 to cast Wildform on them ^_^

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Man, for double the cost of a bull, you get a model that is more than twice as powerful! The only drawback is can't really run them deep. The ogre's get supporting attacks..but the mounts do not, so you lose those 4 extra S5 attacks. But a unit of 3-4 of these (or two, hells ya) would roll over a lot of things...and that 2+/6++ish save is kinda crazy

After Kyte's reports, I've realised just how big a unit of 3+ chariot bases is, so that might cause a few problems in games. Apart from that though, I've not really understood the comparative dearth of attention they've gotten compared to, say, the big beasties. These things are fast, tough and hit monstrously hard, especially if they're GM boosted like you said (ah, the joys of not having your opponent dispel it in their own turn!). I too have gone for the Dragonhide on my proposed unit of 3.

Cuz the big beasties are a given? 

I love the Thundertusk...allowing your guys to strike first against many, many things? Yes please, as how often do you have "extra dudes" sitting in the back waiting to get into the fight?

I was kinda just taken aback by how good the Mournfangs were for their points. For the cost of 2 ogre's you get an extra attacks, 4 of which are +1str, guaranteed d3 impact hits at +1 str (granted bulls can get +2 or +3 str on theirs), and a +1 str stomp (can't do that with ogre's) AND a 2+ save. Gotta love a unit that can just blast into s3 RnF and go to town grinding them away...very ogre-y 

I can't wait to read the rules of the Ironblaster myself...S10 mobile grapeshot? Yes please.

Leadbelchers that are far more reliable? Yes please

Cheaper everything with 2/3cost of an Ogre at 1+ unit size re directors with ogre stats? Oh ya!



Oh ya: where's these reports by Kyte? Don't think i've seen them, and Yes...chariot bases aren't small: but neither are ogre bases 

I also think that they are very powerful. My club doesn't use much terrain, so I don't have to worry about that.

I will probably use 4, as all can attack a 100" frontage (the size of 5 wide Slaves for example) and they will also be easy to keep alive on that too.

I think I will use an army that separates my opponents army and makes it easier for my combat troops to reach his combat troops instead of going through alot of cheap units and shooting.

Kyte's report is in the roundup.

In May I pulled out my TK's, dusted them off, bought the snake surfers and a warsphinx and took them to an Indy GT.  I ended up going 3-2 (would have been 4-1 but my hiero got sucked into the void on turn 1) and I played 2 units of chariots, 1 big and 1 small, plus a unit of 3 snake sufers.  I have to say that in competitive play at the GT, my snakes nor chariots were never flanked charged, one time. 

The chariot bases aren't inhibiting at all because you have such versitlity in your movement.  I would always set the units of 3 (chariots and surfers) towards the outside and thier "wide flank" never became an issue, nor did maneuverability or terrain. 

I think once everyone learns to play with units of chariot size bases this unit will truely become fearsome.  My surfers only died once in 5 games and that was because I made a bad choice, these are way nastier.  They can stand solo against units.

The thing that balances out mournfangs is T4 W3. For high strength stuff, they're not much harder to kill than average ogres. Great Weapons are a really common choice in my group, so most units has at least S5. That said, they do hit very hard, and I agree that they can actually do what all cavalry could do in 6th and 7th. But I wouldn't say they're overpowered at all. Every army has access to something to counter them, and just because their base cost is equal to two naked ogres, with options, command and a magic banner, the unit is about the same point value as say a unit of 8 Ironguts, who hit about as hard all in all. Please don't go all warseer looney before trying them out.

Hello Guts,

Can anyone tell me what the Forgeworld Rhinox basesize are? Im thinking of using the Rhinox as Mournfang. What do you think about that? I personally pref the Rhinox models and 3-6 ranked up would be an A..mazing unit!

Do you think anyone would object with the Rhinox proxy?

Thanks guts.

I think the Mournfang cav hit hard but they suffer from handgunners shot and other armour piercing shots/combat.
The charge makes the Ogre happy..if the Ogre gets charged then it's much less good and even worse if flanked.

Hello Guts,

Can anyone tell me what the Forgeworld Rhinox basesize are? Im thinking of using the Rhinox as Mournfang. What do you think about that? I personally pref the Rhinox models and 3-6 ranked up would be an A..mazing unit!

Do you think anyone would object with the Rhinox proxy?

Thanks guts.

If im not mistaken i believe they're on chariot bases as well. The general consensus seems to be many people using them as counts as MF's.

Please don't go all warseer looney before trying them out.

LOL!

Otherwise I agree with your post 100%.

I believe you'll get a couple of games with the mournfang Cav tanking units and then the consensus getting around the community like wildfire. Afterwards, they'll be arty/missle bait.

btw Iv'e ordered a couple!

The thing that balances out mournfangs is T4 W3.

this is, i think, what is going to make them not worth their points cost.
Yes they have a decent armour save, but they'll just get hit by high strenght/no AS stuff.

One of the biggest problem i've had with ogres in 8th is that higher toughness doesn't mean much. if you go by averages then it's easy to do wounds, even to a steam tank. with only 3 wounds each they are going to go down too quickly I think.

ill still run some in some practice games, but then again with the exeption of yetis i'll probably run everything at some point. But from how things look at present I'm thinking more bodies on the ground will be preferable.

They will do what cav is supposed to do, but with no ranks your opponent is going to be steadfast, so it's unlikely you'll got through them in a round of combat.

They will do what cav is supposed to do, but with no ranks your opponent is going to be steadfast, so it's unlikely you'll got through them in a round of combat.

That would be true if they go in alone. I don't intend to use them that way though. They are there to threaten flanks. This gives my opponent a choice. Turn and face them or get charged in the flank. I know you say, "So what, they are steadfast then they reform to face them." Ah, but that would be why there will be plain ol' Ogres threatening the front or maybe a unit of ranked up Gnoblars. Give Gnoblas a flank, they will hit you and break steadfast while the Mournfang rack up the CR.

Hello Guts,

Can anyone tell me what the Forgeworld Rhinox basesize are? Im thinking of using the Rhinox as Mournfang. What do you think about that? I personally pref the Rhinox models and 3-6 ranked up would be an A..mazing unit!

Do you think anyone would object with the Rhinox proxy?

Thanks guts.

They better not, I'm using FW rhinox myself.  They are on chariot bases just like the mornfangs.

I'll be using one unit of 4 initially, possibly going to two units of 4 as the list comes together.

Oh so cool. Loving the FW Rhinox

So is Mournfang worth taking or is there something worth taking over it? I don't especially like the Mournfang creatures and since my army is the Mountaineaters I also go for more fluff models, not quite sure if these are for them.

Not quite worth it with the T4 as pointed out. They got munched in the WD battle report.

I was looking to use the FW Rinoxen as replacements as well...until I just read that the Mournfangs are Toughness 4 w/ 3 Wounds...

Looks like I just saved a fortune.

The units in my view that are worth their points are our Core, followed closely by the Maneaters with their Special Erotic Skills...I mean Special Skills.

..Do you think anyone would object with the Rhinox proxy?....

They better not....

Else what?

On a totally unrelated note, what do you think of our new club rule- no proxing Rhinox Riders for Mournfangs?
I made it up just now...


Nah seriously, if anyone has a problem with it I'd question their sanity and if you'd want to play them anyway.
I think it'll be great to see Mounfangs in one persons army and Rhinox in anothers, such is the diversity and visual appeal of Warhamer.
It'll certainly be happening in our club and I wouldn't expect any tournaments to have a problem either as they're the same base size.

True, you get half as many wounds, but with a very good armor save AND parry (it's been said numerous times they can parry from cat?back with ironfists...boo if this was just a widely spread lie  ) and scary offensive potential: Mournfang will be quite a good choice.

Don't spam them, by any means, but a unit of 3 or 4 would be quite scary for any opponent. If they are devoting tons of magic or shooting to kill them, that's less shooting at your IG block, Bull block, or rare choices. And again, with swiftstride, they can get long charges off on turn 2 and get stuck into combat where they belong

The thing about Kyte's battles was he had them with GWs...I think that's kinda silly. He said that Maneaters were good at munching RnF and Mournfangs were not, because he gave them GWs. Mournfangs are only 5gnoblars more, put out far more attacks, and have a much better defense than maneaters. And you have characters/Ironguts/Rares to deal with high T and High armor already.

Also, WTB Mournfang GWs on Ironguts ^_^

Guess I'll wait for the army book, I have quite a large army already including a slavegiant, but I want some gorgers to and I actually think the rhinox riders look a lot better but they cost to much.

Can anyone tell by looking at the photos the size difference between the Mournfang and the Forgeworld Rhinox? Is the Rhinox much bigger?

Would a mixed unit of 2+2 look silly?

He said that Maneaters were good at munching RnF and Mournfangs were not, because he gave them GWs.

I don't recall saying that. In my two Battles, my unit of 4 Mournfang cavalry performed greatly, and I would personally always choose the GWs at any time. In my posts, I just warned about high strength stuff and reminded the internet flagellants that Mournfangs are not the new game breaker. On that subject, people here are always talking about taking the ironfists over great weapons, and I simply can't see why. As far as I see the GWs gives the riders a far better damage potential, which I see as far better than the increase in save and addition of parry. Parry is next to useless IMO. Usually these will be top priority targets for Trollguts, especially early in the game, which will take the edge off most shooting.

All in all, I do, however see strong competition from other special choices. Especially Yhetees and Maneaters.

By the way, to enter the rhinox/mournfang debate, Mine will be riding rhinoxen which I sculpted and cast myself, as I'd rather have the unit for free than pay FW prices, and to be honest, the mournfang models don't really appeal to me. They could be easily converted into giant boars which would be cool, I think, But then again, that would require a combination of money and efford, making my solution still overall preferable.

Maneaters were awsome. 15 WS4 S5 I3 Attacks from 3 models are awsome. They chewed through light infantry, and plowed through the flank of some knights errant.

From Warseer. I'm sure you didn't mean as dedicated RnF (IE: Light Infantry) killers, but if these are good at it...Mournfangs would be better for only small-ish point increase.

GW's only effect 3/7 of the model's attacks. Where is the 2+ save effects all wounds taken (and yes...6+, 5+ for that matter to me, saves are utterly useless...but it's something). Land a +1str or Wildform on them (again, +1 to cast is nice heh) and they have 4 attacks at an Ogre w/GW str and 3 more at 5..of course you could get 4xstr6 and 3xstr7 with GWs.

I still feel the extra save is supperior to Mournfangs, and if you don't think you'll need it at all, you can toss in 3-4 more attacks at only -1armor and no parry (Ironfists still working as now of course).

I might glance over the scouting rules and such to see if Maneaters would sound good in that regard, but would rather spend points on Thundercat Riders