Help Me Decide on a Second Army!

I am definitely going to keep my ogres, but I have been thinking about starting another army mostly because my friends have been barking about "always having to play ogres" when they play against me, and I wouldnt mind having something to play against myself if I want to try a new strategy out (yes I play games against myself, always have, and yes its probably sad and creepy but I just do...OK?!!!! ).

Anyway...

Dark Elves: I was thinking of doing a Forgotten Realms "Drow" theme with them. I like the strategy of the DEs and putting together an army like this would be fun I think. It would take a lot of conversions to build the models I wanted, but it would pay off in the long run. It would also be a nice compliment to my ogre army since my guts are all about smashing people, and the DEs are more about magic and shooting.

Vampire Counts: I LOVE underdog armies and right now, a lot of people are saying VC arent even considered a tier 2 army, so this makes them very tempting to me. Im not sure if I would devise any specific theme for them (I was thinking either "Army of Darkness" or "300"), but I know I would try to play them as a major control-based army with VERY LARGE blocks of dead things and just focus on keeping them resurrected. Would probably be expensive, but could be fun?

WoC - Slaanesh: the Dark Prince is all about indulgence...I can connect with this in my own weird (and dark) way. Slaanesh reminds me of Calicles in Plato's The Republic (which is one of the only arguments I honestly think ol' Socrates cheated in...but thats another matter), in that he believes life is just all about feeding the "wants" of the self...sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll man! That's Slaanesh! I also love the FW Daemon model, and I dont see a lot of people playing Slaanesh much. Mostly Khorne and Tzeentch? I think I would enjoy collecting this army. Slaanesh has probably become my favorite of the Chaos Gods after reading more about them.

So those are the options. You can post your reasoning if you would like, and I would ask everyone to make your own decision despite me allowing you to see the results before its over. I am also allowing voters to change their minds in case they think about it one way, and then the next day say "well I should have considered..." You know how it is.

Thanks for voting and helping me make up my mind!

Sincerely,

Corm

Cormorant,

I did the same thing.  Our local game store has an auction twice a year and I was able to pick up a bunch of cheap IoB High Elf stuff.  After about $100 of investing I ended up with about 3K points of high elves.

I voted Dark Elves for you because  I think it is the opposite of what we play now with ogres.  Soft and fast as opposed to hard and slow.  Lots of magic options vs our limited selection (till the new book comes out).  More finesse than straight punch you in the face and see if you can take it power.

One of my buddies played Dark Elves in our escalation league that I have been posting battle reports about.  In 15 games he is the one who handed me both loses.  And most of the game we played (total of five) could have gone either way it was that close.

Not much experience with the other two, so no comment on them

out of the three you listed i would have to say vampires. i dont know who you guys play or who you talked to but around here vampires still run the show (more or less, everyone has bad days). ghouls and grave guard are where its at. my last 2 games against vampires i have been tabled. granted i have been a bit of a loosing streak. also i am just not a fan of any elves other than wood elves. i used to play high elves and just got bored with them too fast once i discovered teclis (7th ed.) and i feel like everyone and their grandma played dark elves too.

i can see the attraction to WoC but be careful. they can be very point click and that can get boring fast. lizards are the same was and i had my lizards for less than 3 months before i hated playing them.

 i have played a total of 9 armies and sold off all but my skaven, ogres, and the wifes wood elves.

if you are looking for the opposite of ogres have you considered skaven, O&G, or Empire? they all have thier ups and downs. problem with those could be high model count armies. im not sure if your into that.

skaven are a lot of fun but you have to be into watching your army fall apart, die in droves, and just kill them selves in all around fun ways. high model count but a ton of options.

emipre are just skaven without the randomness. predictable but reliable. jack of all traits.

O&G are just all around fun. like skaven tons of options but unlike skaven can make a force of seer power if you want (all orcs).

in the end you have to play what you love your you wont play it. thus why i came back to my roots of ogres and skaven.

PS in your games where you play yourself do you find it hard to remain objective? like playing it out so you know who is going to win? i have always wanted to try it but get caught up in the "fairness?" of the play.

You need to reconsider the placement of Vampire Counts in your tier list. Look at the recent ETC, EVERY team had a Vampire Count army.

That said, I love the army for the fluff etc. And in competition, they are potent, especially with ghouls and grave guards. The problem is that the rest of the book is priced with the old Fear rules, and because of that most of their unit are way overcosted. The consequence is that for core units for example, you don't have many interesting builds to play with.

I will maybe start a VC army too, but I will not do so before a new armybook that should fix these problems.

I voted Vampires mate, simply because I think they're the only army worth doing there. They are a joy to model, paint and play. What more could you want from an army? Not to mention, they've just had that beautiful Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon model released...

JJ

Sigvald the Magnificent FTW!!!  Find a way to mirror the shields of the unit he is in and that would rock!!!

oAF

VCs can rumble with the best of them if you stick to a limited list of units, with Ghouls and Grave Guard being on that list. That said, much of the book is now at that underdog level you want, and I'm sure if you got good with it you could punish people hard for underestimating you - much like Ogres throughout 6th and 7th!

I voted Dark Elves for you because  I think it is the opposite of what we play now with ogres.  Soft and fast as opposed to hard and slow.  Lots of magic options vs our limited selection (till the new book comes out).  More finesse than straight punch you in the face and see if you can take it power.

I had similar reasoning as to the opposite style strategy of the army. That definitely makes it appealing, and I think I would like to incorporate the philosophy of Lolth into the fluff. Maybe like Khaine and Lolth has some kind of interdimensional war going on Could be fun right?

out of the three you listed i would have to say vampires. i dont know who you guys play or who you talked to but around here vampires still run the show (more or less, everyone has bad days).

There are a several very heavy combat lists in our area that can just mow them down before they get a chance to do much - my army being the meanest apparently because I haven't lost to VC yet.

i can see the attraction to WoC but be careful. they can be very point click and that can get boring fast. lizards are the same was and i had my lizards for less than 3 months before i hated playing them.

emipre are just skaven without the randomness. predictable but reliable. jack of all traits.

Good advice on the WoC, I appreciate that as I hadn't thought about it like that. I usually look at the fluff and how I am "connected" to an army to decide how/if I want to play them if that makes any sense. I have a weird connection to Slaanesh in that if I were a Chaos God, I would probably be like Slaanesh and tempt people into overindulgence and ultimately their demise into Chaos with whispers of supreme powers in the background.

I have two reasons I CANNOT play Empire or Skaven: 1) I just don't like either army. I don't like the Empire because I cant stand to think of playing just boring "humans" in a fantasy game (although I do love Flagellants-fluff) and I don't like Skaven because I was traumatized by their absolute broken cheesiness in Mordheim which has fueled an undying hatred for the army in any setting; and 2) they are both HUGE model count armies and I am the type that I have to have one of EVERYTHING so it would be VERY expensive for me to collect them and paint them all and I just cannot force myself to do it! 

PS in your games where you play yourself do you find it hard to remain objective? like playing it out so you know who is going to win? i have always wanted to try it but get caught up in the "fairness?" of the play.

Actually no I don't. I play really slow (sometimes it take a few days even if I have a lot of other stuff to do), and I will replay the same turn phases to see how each will play out in different circumstances for both armies. Thats why it takes so long but it really helps me optimize my lists in tweaking, and it teaches me lessons I carry with me into the tourney field. Ive been borrowing armies from friends to do this, and thats how I developed the Skrag list I took to and won the Maul in the Mall tourney. Its the same principle as playing Chess against yourself - if you know how to beat yourself, you know what to look for from your opponent.

Sigvald the Magnificent FTW!!!  Find a way to mirror the shields of the unit he is in and that would rock!!!

Hmmm that is a very, very, VERY interesting modeling prospect sir... I have a wet saw Im sure I could cut a mirror up with...that would be the most original and coolest themed Slaanesh army out there.... You sir, have tempted me! (How ironic eh? lol)



Thanks to everyone for voting so far and for the feedback! Keep them coming please!

I use WEs so I can't vote for DEs
I use Empire so I can't vote for Vamps
I am starting a 40k Slannesh army so a WoC Slannesh is up my ally.

You could try too make a Dark elf army with a Slannesh theme in it.

It's hard too say what army that you want.
Maybee just proxie an army or just borrow some one Vampire count/dark elf/chaos army too see if you like the playing style.

So have you made a decision yet?

Vamp Counts are a fun force.  Heavy Ghouls is the new rage although BnG will make you sadface in 2.5k games so if you're not one to mind eschewing theme for competitiveness and opting for less ghouls and more GG and mix in some Vamps with Beasts, you've got a mean looking force.

I haven't made a decision yet, no. I will let this run its course completely. I have it setup to end on Sept 22 - that will give me time to play some of the new ogre stuff as well and determine if I will even have the money to start a new army or not. If I really like the new OK, I will be investing in them before a new one.

So far though everyone is voting for VC but my other reason for wanting to play them was destroyed by my other friends who showed me the error in my thinking. I wanted to plant Zombies in a unit of about 200 on the field and just make a monster tarpit unit to spread across the field, but the "Newly Dead" rule keeps me from putting my BSB-Drakenholf in the unit so I can't give them regen saves. I wonder why no one else had thought of that yet....stupid rules....

Empire? ...anyone?

Empire? ...anyone?

Please review Post #8, Section 3, Paragraph 2 for explanation. Thanks

I have refrained from voting on this before, as I'm not sure I like the idea of getting the Internet to direct *your* hobby. Plus, they never helped me when I asked...

However, if you are going to start something new it should be soemthing very different from your current list. In my opinion, the only one of those choices are the Dark Elves. If it were totally up to me, I would collect them very slowly, as you plan to convert and paint them very uniquely. That would let you do something different, which you obviously want to do, but at the same time would give you the time to play with the new ogres.

By the way, they should be counted as a 'new' army. They are looking to be substantially different to the old book and should be worth another look.

Up to you though, of course

Of those three, Vampire Counts is the only one I find even marginally interesting.

i voted Dark elves.

My first army, when i started playing WH at the beginning of the 6th ed. it was in my opinion the best looking army and one of the most challenging to master...
These day's it's a bit different, it's not that hard to win a game with them, even though they got hit by the step up rule.

they can be quite versatile. like you said good magic , nice shooting, but very good in close combat as well. They have the possibility to play different themes that work quite well (raiders, khaine, beasts) but you also have mutliple "ballanced" possibilities. there is more to them then unkillable dragonlords, hydra's and xbows.

i voted Dark elves.

My first army, when i started playing WH at the beginning of the 6th ed. it was in my opinion the best looking army and one of the most challenging to master...
These day's it's a bit different, it's not that hard to win a game with them, even though they got hit by the step up rule.

they can be quite versatile. like you said good magic , nice shooting, but very good in close combat as well. They have the possibility to play different themes that work quite well (raiders, khaine, beasts) but you also have mutliple "ballanced" possibilities. there is more to them then unkillable dragonlords, hydra's and xbows.

Nice analysis sir, thanks for sharing and voting!

That is another thing about DEs (aside from the modeling possibilities I presented below) that I do really like. It would be an army that is very versatile and I do like that because there are a LOT more options.

My take on the three armies:

Warriors of Chaos is probably the easiest army to win with. They are very simple and straightforward. March forward and kill everything. Because of this, I find them kind of boring.

Dark elves are a great mix of ranged and melee. They also have a strong magic phase. They are one of the best well-rounded armies in my opinion. A solid back-up choice if you want to putz around with strategies with your ogres. I would say only the Empire are more well-rounded than them.

Vampire Counts are probably the hardest to play, but I think more fun. I've played against and allied with them. It was always a rollercoaster ride. A good player will rock with them. a bad player will loose by turn 2.

May I suggest my secondary army: Tomb Kings. I love a wacky magic phase which is why I like TK and ogres.

Good friend of mine started playing DE in our escalation league.  He was the only one to give me some competition.

I was kind of afraid of that with WoC actually, and the biggest appeal for me is just putting Slaanesh and its troops on the board really with the theme I had in mind. I don't like armies that "play themselves" and just win because they are what they are. I like a challenge. But the modeling ideas and the fact practically NO ONE fields Slaanesh makes it appealing to me in that respect as well...

The Dark Elves are becoming more and more appealing, not only for the versatility arguments everyone is presenting, but also because of the modeling potential I have in mind for them.

The Vampire Counts are, noticeably, winning the vote so far and the thing that they have going for them in my court is that they are a difficult army to win with. Like Nells pointed out, you either win with them because you are a good player, or you just lay down and (re)die with them because you are not. I don't have any particular theme in mind for them though and that is a strike against them unfortunately because I do enjoy modeling and theming my army as much as playing it.

Thanks for all the input so far guys, the voting has about 2 weeks left so if you want to spread the word around for people to come in and discuss this and vote, I would appreciate it!

Hey!

I play dark elves as My main army and i got ogres as My secound.

My vote goes to the DEs, for simple reasons.

They are really evil!

Look awsome

Easy to modify in to a nice theme

You can play in many many diffrent ways
Shooting army, very fast, hard hitting or a army that have hundreds attacks, magic heavy.

Strong magic

Assassins and scouts, i just love My shades!

MONSTERS, hydra anyone? Pegasus, manticore, dragon!  Happiness

You can beat anyone!

Okies first up the VC's are not an underpowered army inspite of some whingeing VC players. They are finishing near the top in 8th Ed and winning Tournies the old VC players just need to adapt to the 8th Ed rules.

VC's very solid army to use with lots of Magical toys in their book.

WoC another nasty army with I5 troops which are tough as nails.

DE's also a top tear army and would be my pick of the 3 you have mentioned.

The crowds have spoken. We shall see what the future holds. I appreciate everyone who voted and posted an opinion!

I need to decide on the Ogres before I do anything else now.