The 1K struggle!

Hi guys.

I've recently joined a local gaming club. It's flipping ace, i love it. The guys i play against are ace too, giving advice and help during every game.

Here's the rub, i get a flipping wooping every  time. This is fine, but im starting to feel like i am absolutely no competition for anybody!

I struggle with the 1K list. Ive played about 10 games against skaven so far since collecting my first battalion of ogres in January, grabbing a couple of slim victories, which was awesome. Since ive joined the club ive played dwarves, beastmen and orcs and goblins.

Dwarves was gunline and  panicking ogres all over the place.
Beastmen was more balanced but poor poor rolling of the dice
orcs and goblins was just depressing.

Ogres are the army for me, no doubt, but im at a very low point in my gaming.  Ive even put them up for sale here, but just cant bring myself to do it. It was stupid, a spur of the moment thing. And admittedly weak.

I've put too much in to this army to sell it. I love painting them, i love hitting the field with them. I needed this wooping to break me down to a mere shell of a man. Now it's time to rebuild, to analise where my weaknesses are, and to take steps to build a greater army!

I usually field a bruiser, in his pants, and lately, just units of bulls with additional hand weapons.

I've tried numerous combos, with leadies, Ironguts, and even gnoblars (better on burnt toast) but each time i dont seem to be able to weather the beatings from the opponent.

I go into every game with very low expectations, purely to avoid disappointment. I even joke that every game against the ogres is a free campaign tile for the opponent. Its all wrong!

I am desperate to learn the ways of a competitive general. The ogres are the army i chose, i need to do them proud.

I dont need to win, i just want to feel as though i am a competitive force in the local campaign, get a few points, a few kills!

I know i have to learn by experimentation and i know that losses are part of the game, afterall, there is always a loss at every table in our campaign!

All aspiring generals need guidance, so a little help will go a long way.

Thankyou in advance

paul
general, in need.

You are also using a butcher, aren't you? You get  magic dice a round a its a shame to let them go to waste.  I would run a bruiser in a unit of iron guts with the crown of command and the standard of discipline. That way they shouldn't run away all too much. Bulls are fine as support units in 6 strong 3X3 formations.

go with no magic until the new book... i found butchers to be useless at the moment.

My 1k competition list is...

Ogre Bruiser
+Dragonbane Gem
+Brahmir Statue (situational, can swap with a magic weapon?)
+Mawseeker
Equipped with Cathayan Longsword, Heavy Armour
192pts

Ironguts x 5
+ Gutlord
+ Standard
+ Rune Maw banner
300pts

Bulls x 3
105pts

Leadbelchers x 3
165pts

Gnobblar Fighters x 36
72pts

Gnoblar Scraplauncher x 1
165pts

TOTAL = 999pts (Ogre Kingdoms)

Steps to becoming a better general in general(no pun intended(ok maybe a little)):

1. Document - seriously, record everything. I became much better when I started taking notes as to what was happening during the game and taking pictures of the game in progress. It slowed my games down for a bit, but I learned a lot. Part of the issue is that when you get to the end of the game and then wander home and try to figure out what went wrong very often you can not pinpoint the actual reason(s).

Sometimes you remember something because it was so severe, but often you might overlook the three other things that lead to it.

Made up Example of the notes I scrawl during the match:

Ogres T1
<Pic>
No Bickers
Charges - None
Moved up IG, Bulls moved up right flank to bait a bit.
<Pic>
Magic - 2,6
Bonecruncher Big Un's - dis
Braingobbl right chariot - dis
Trollguts IG - di
Tooth IG went through on 2 dice, wounded SM
BloodGruel 1 die - Failed

Shooting
Scrap at Big 'uns, KB2 killed 2 more

Orcs T1
<Pic>
Animosity on Right NG
everything moved forward, chariot threatening my Scrap
<Pic>

Magic
IF Foot on IGs, passed to Gnobs, kills 12 stops
Miscast removes foot looses rest of dice

Shooting
NG fire into IG 2 wounds 1 saved
Chariot fires at IG nothing
L Chariot fires at IG misses

Ogres T2
Right Gnobs bicker
Charges:
Bulls on Chariot - flee redirect to Big'uns - Hold
IG on Big'uns - Still hold
Both units in!

Magic 4,5
3 dice on Trollguts - Dis
3 dice on Bullgorger Bulls - pass
2 dice on Toothcracker - Dis
1 die Blood - Good and no 1

Shooting
Left gnobs on Chariot - nothing
Scrap on NG - drifted off

CC
Impact Bulls 2 die
IG 2 die
He challenges Tyrant accepts
Bulls kill 6 more
<pic>
Bruiser kills 2
Big'uns 9 bulls - 3 wounds 1 parry / rest on IG & Bruiser no wounds on bruiser 4 wounds IG no saves
Challenge = 3 wounds on Tyrant 1 WS'd Tyrant overkills Orc Warboss with Tenderizer maxing out.
IG 7 hits - WOW! 6 wounds, none saved
Stomps 3 wounds in all
I win by... a lot he is steadfast and hangs around


Orc T2
<Pic>

As you can see I can go back and look at the battle field and see where I might have made mistakes, where that turning point was... and so on. I can theorize that I could have gotten another Buff by changing the order of my casting or skipping a spell or using more or less dice. Every place I have <Pic> I took a picture of the board or specific units.

The problem is it is a lot of work and slows down the game. Find patient people to play with if you are doing this.


2. Talk to your opponents. Ask them what they think was the turning point for them. Ask them if they know of any mistakes you made that they could exploit. You might find out things like:
"Oh, I saw you left a charge lane open to your scraplauncher so I charged it with an Eagle to tie it up for a couple turns. I think that really helped as you couldn't whittle down my unit."
"Well, you shouldn't have charged the turn you did. If you could have waited 1 turn you would have had support from your Bulls. If I charged you at that point I'd present a flank to them so I couldn't have charged instead. Alone the IG couldn't break me before my knights could flank them."

3. Remember those notes? Write up a Battle Report. It is fun and in writing everything down you again relive the game, often from a more objective point. In addition if you post them somewhere like here we get to vicariously enjoy your game and in addition comment on what we though might have been both good and bad moves. We might even learn something from you.

4. Read battle reports. Ones with good pictures and large amounts of detail are best especially if they mention the thought behind the action.
"I did some quick math and on average I figured I could tie maybe come out a point or two ahead. If I got any of my buffs during magic then I would win the combat. Sadly he was able to dispel everything and the dice went against me so not only did I not tie, but I lost the combat. Next time I might hold out for the Bulls to be able to support my IG instead of charging right in. Then again I didn't want to have to survive another round of the cannons and mortars, not to mention his magic."

1k is extremely hard with Ogres right now. Our books isn't very forgiving at low point totals while armies like Skaven and Dwarfs have tons of nasty tricks.

Looking at your list I would say:
- Don't take Leadbelchers. Too high risk and low reward for their points at this level.
- Don't take a Scraplauncher. Same deal.
- You need more Ogres on the field, or more magic.

I ran this in a 1k league when 8th came out and did okay (still struggled against Skaven).

HEROES: (183)
Bruiser - CLS, Mawseeker, Gambler's Armor, Fistful of Laurels (183)

CORE: (567)
Bulls x 3 (105)
Ironguts x 8 - Bellower, Standard, Rune Maw (410)
Gnoblar Fighters x 26 (52)

RARE: (250)
Slavegiant (175)
Gorger (75)

Total Points: 1,000 (of 1,000)

You know they are going to shoot and magic your big unit... so let them! Then run into them with monsters.

Thanks for all replies! Some excellent advice for which i am very grateful.

All makes sence apart from lists which include a bruiser and a butcher. I thought the cap was 25% for heroes.

A bruiser is 130 points as is the butcher which is 260 altogether. This is illegal?!.

Unless I'm missing something and the bruiser counts as a lord choice when used as the general.

I'm off to get a gorger today, I don't use gnoblars, and I'm currmently building a scrappie.

My latest list was

Bruiser

6 bulls with AH

5  bulls with AH

4 ironguts

3 bulls Ah
X 2 units.

I have thought I should write everything down in a game, I find it interesting to read battle reports so I will certainly do that next game!

Sincerely, thanks for all the advice guys. Brilliant.

Paul.

Thanks for all replies! Some excellent advice for which i am very grateful.

All makes sence apart from lists which include a bruiser and a butcher. I thought the cap was 25% for heroes.

It is... my dumb late night brain pulled that from a 1,500 pt list (we added 500 points as part of our campaign/league).

What you can do is take a  cheap Tyrant and a Butcher if you want magic. I usually go with Armour of Fortune then whatever fits y our style best in the other 15 points. Sometimes I use CLS with the Ironcurse Icon or Dragonbane Gem. Sometimes just go for the GW option. I've even gone Brace of Handguns.

This eats up about 1/3rd to 4/5ths of your points though and that can be risky. In combat a lot of bodies can go a long way.