I take 3 6-bull units and a unit of 6 ironguts. i really love my list and i am also really stubborn, so i took it to a GT a couple weeks ago. Game 1 I came up against a huge saurus horde. I had all 4 units in charge range needing no more than a 7 on 2d6 for each unit. I charged all 4 units, only 2 made it (stupid dice...), winds of gut magic got snake eyes - so no toothcracker for stubborn on either unit, and i was promptly beaten by 5-6 and run down. game over pretty much b/c he overpursued into my 2 units that didnt make the charge and wiped them out too in his turn.
Im writing this in this thread to illustrate just how hard it is to make the MSU strategy work in 8th. first of all, there are no guaranteed charges. if one key unit ( such as my ironguts) doesn't make it into combat, then things can go south quickly.
The key to making the MSU approach viable is effective use of gnoblars. Gnoblars are only useful in enemy flanks. in the front they take too many casualties and actually cost you combat resolution. in the flanks, you will be able to use the gnoblars' static resolution without taking too many wounds, cause a disruption taking away the opponents static res, and finally outranking the enemy which removes their stubborn. without a unit of gnoblars in the opponents flank, there really is no way MSU can work in 8th IMHO.
1. You charged a Huge HORDE of Saurus Warriors who are similar to WoC except for Init and it sounds like you did it right in the front. One might ask you... WTF??? You expected that to work with no risk?
2. You rolled poorly, and even so I don't understand how 2 Dice to cast with against a single Dispel die did allow you to cast a Toothcracker. I don't think LM get an item that allows them to steal a die so did you roll poorly a 4th time?
3. How many games have you done well with that list?
This glaring example of poor die and gambling on taking out his horde and not having it pay off doesn't prove it won't work. It does illustrate that it is more difficult to play. The thing is that it can also be more difficult for your opponent to play against.
Case in point. I watched a game, oh, maybe 2 months back. Beastmen with an actual horde of Minotaurs lead by a Doom Bull and Gorebull BSB. He had Ungore Raiders ambushing, a couple chariots, a ranked up Gor Herd for core as a place to put a caster, some Harpies and then the Horde.
He took on a HE players with 4 Eagles, serious magic(Banner of Socery on a unit even), couple Repeating BTs, basically a Horde of his own of Lothern Sea Guard, some Archers, Phoenix Guard, Archmage, Mage, Prince, and I forget what else specifically.
The Beastman player had made a comment that not much could stand up to his Minotaurs once they got rolling. I had to agree that they would smash most unit. The game proved that to be true as well except he never got the chance to get them rolling. Despite taking a number of small low point cost units to run interference and deal with things like Warmachines archers the game went:
Turn one HE shoots the Harpies dead and deals like a wound to the horde from shooting while the Beastman player moves forward. Turn 2 HE puts an Eagle 1" from the horde in it's way at a weird angle. Magics the horde with Hexes, kills off a chariot with another spell, shoots the crap out the horde. Beastman charges the Eagle, kills it, reforms and makes the comment, "You are only giving me more attacks." He player puts an Eagle in front of the horde, magics it, shoots the crap out of it. You get the picture.
Over 4 turns he whittled that horde down to a single rank. That's ok Minos are still pretty nasty with all those attacks and a Doombull. So he charged the LSG, who did a stand and shoot and killed another Minotaur. Impact hits killed off a couple elves. The the LSG got to go first and put an impressive number of wounds on beasts. Doombull and Gore bull did their thing, then the Minos, then Stomps, and true enough the Minos won the combat. LSG held because of Steadfast. Next turn he was able to send in the Phoenix guard in the flank of the Horde and win the combat. Then the Mino horde broke and was run down(what was left, the BSB was already dead so I think it was a Doom Bull and a Minotaur).
Now I am not saying that my small units wouldn't have been giving up points by being wiped out by massed fire. I'm not saying my game would have been easy against that army. What I am saying is that I've seen this guy play a few times and he always plays a delaying tactic with the Eagles. He eats hordes up fairly well and gives up 200 points doing it. In the meantime he tries to find a few places he can get points. I'm considering playing that army with my MSU and seeing what it does. The Eagles will be less useful as they can delay me a turn instead of a Horde 4 turns or a couple nasty units 2 turns. Then again, will he need to delay me more than that. In either case
he might actually have to think and plan in this game and THAT in and of itself is worth playing something other than Horde.
