2500 Ogres for Lone Wolf GT

Lords: 595
Tyrant
Tricksters Helm
Greyback Pelt
Mawseeker
Heavy Armor
Great Weapon

Slaughtermaster
Bloodcleaver
Crown of Command
Skullmantle

Heroes: 367
BSB
Cathayan Longsword
Heavy Armor
Enchanted Shield
Ironcurse Icon
Mawseeker

Butcher
Dispel Scroll
Ruby Ring of Ruin

Core:1098
6 Ironguts
Muso
SB w/ Lookout Gnoblar
RuneMaw Banner

6 Bulls
Nekkid
Muso
SB w/ Lookout Gnoblar

6 Bulls
Nekkid

6 Bulls
Nekkid

90 Points, 2 units of Gnoblars
either 21 Fighters + 8 Trappers
or 25 Fighters + 20 Fighters

Special: 440
2 Scraplaunchers

2 Leadbelchers

How about that for a vanilla list?!?  I set this list up to be as versatile and forgiving as possible.  I will plan to run the SM + BSB in the IG unit w/ SM on 2nd Rank.  However, if I feel like I messed up in deployment or some other screw up on my part, I can still stick the BSB + SM into the unit of Bulls w/ Muso and SB.  I usually like to run my Butcher with my Leadbelchers behind my whole army just pumping out buffs and trying to keep baddies off my backside.  I prefer to start the Tyrant in any one of the units and charge him out alone into a big baddie and let them swing and miss while he wins the combat.  But with this list I also have the option of sticking Butcher + Tyrant into the unit of Bulls + Muso if I have to. 

My Questions for the Stronghold:
1.  Thoughts in general on how this list will work in an uber-competitive environment?  I have to admit I have played a version of this list about 15 times in 8th Edition, and not one time have I played anyone with a competitive playstyle.

2. Which Gnoblar option do you guys like? 

3. Do i really need warmachine hunters when I plan to be in B2B by turn 2?

4.  Do I really need lookout gnoblars? I always feel like I do, and always take them, but then I never end up using them because my heroes are so much tougher to wound.

5.  I think leadbelchers kind of suck, but I also know that explaining to people that they do an artillery dice worth of shots gives me a psychological advantage.  In my games (admittedly vs mainly beginners), they have done a great job of bunkering my vulnerable butcher and allowing him to buff early game and magic missile/cleanup duty late game.  Will this work on the tourney scene?

Obviously, Im really excited about my first tournament, and I would be open to and very much appreciate any advice you guys might lend.

This list will probably lose most of it's games, it really depends on the scenarios overall.

Ask yourself.. how are you going to win games? Points denial? Massive CC carnage? I think this list is very balanced which could be good but may also lose you the game in certain matchups.

Things I might change:
- switch Bloodcleaver for a better magic weapon on the SM, or a ward save. You need to keep him alive and Bloodcleaver really only works when you risk him in CC.
- Crown of command on the SM? Seems odd... love the Skullmantle though but it is also unlikely to come up too much in most games.
- One magic weapon may make it hard vs woodies or wraiths
- I might skip Rune Maw for the flaming banner... hard to say.
- Not sure I love the Tyrant's loadout. What's the thought process here?
- If you drop the LoG you might consider taking a champion in the Leadies so you can make it really annoying to shoot them... especially if you put the Butcher in there. Actually with the Butcher in there I would probably go with a Bellower.

In answer to your questions:

1. If I had to guess I would say you will come out 1 win, 2 draws, 2 losses. You'll get one awesome match up during the event and two close win/losses that are draws, and stomped into the dirt in two games. That has been my personal experience at GTs in Texas... but that was 7th.

2. I would probably go with 21 fighters and the trappers but that's because I like to mess with Frenzied troops and make people stress about them in deployment.

3. Depends on what your opponent is planning on doing. They may give you a huge Ld 9 or 10 Stubborn block that will chop up your Ogres and shoot the rest of your army off the table.

4. I wouldn't bother with LoG but then again...

5. Leadbelchers do suck. They are terrible and overcosted. Having said that... I always took 2 units of 2 to my GT events. They are good for scaring off smaller units, flyers, fast movers, etc. They can also be useful at redirection but less so with swift reform in the game. I would use them to guard the rear of my Ogre character unit and guard my Scrappy in 7th. I would probably do the same now.

Hope this helps! Wish I could attend 

This list will probably lose most of it's games, it really depends on the scenarios overall.

Ask yourself.. how are you going to win games? Points denial? Massive CC carnage? I think this list is very balanced which could be good but may also lose you the game in certain matchups.

How I have won with this list in the past is pretty simple.  Turn 1 March Forward and make sure I get to dictate CC matchups that I am planning on for turn 2.  Buff Buff Buff Gut Magic.  Soften blocks of troops I will be targeting Turn 2 with Scraplaunchers.  Move gnoblars usually to my most threatened flank and set them up to stand still and be stubborn.  Try my hardest to keep gnoblars in Generals Ld bubble as long as possible.  if not, they die.  Turn 2 Charge.  Looking for matchups that I know I can win and overrun past the enemy line with as many units as possible.  Make sure I have toothcracker on the one bull unit that usually will be in for a loss that combat round.  Almost always make sure to get trollguts on my ironguts unit.  After this point, you know what happens...just war in general.  I guess you simply say my plan is to table the enemy by turn 4 or 5.  I guess you are right that that is probably not the best expectation I should have for my first tournament. 

Things I might change:
- switch Bloodcleaver for a better magic weapon on the SM, or a ward save. You need to keep him alive and Bloodcleaver really only works when you risk him in CC.
- Crown of command on the SM? Seems odd... love the Skullmantle though but it is also unlikely to come up too much in most games.

My idea for the SM is just how he will work from the 2nd rank of a unit designed to get into CC.  Bloodcleaver to heal wounds suffered from gut magic buffs.  crown of command is just on the SM b/c he has points room and he will always be in the unit that I cant afford fleeing after a lost combat.

- One magic weapon may make it hard vs woodies or wraiths

Yikes.  Good point.  Too risky to depend on gut magic and bound items for these suckas i would think.  What other ethereals do I need to fear?  I can also think of Black Coach....

- Not sure I love the Tyrant's loadout. What's the thought process here?

I have always just used him as a near unkillable General who has potential for going it alone.  I used to run him with Cathayan Longsword rather than GW, but he never even would take a wound.  I switched him over to GW and now he can actually win combats on his own.  In a practice game, I charged him into a LM Engine of the Gods.  Won that combat, but of course the coldblooded thing held.  Then I got flanked by an ancient steggy.  I was able to draw that combat and stay in combat for a number of turns before I finally killed off both of them.  I really have enjoyed his loadout, but like I said, I might not be ready for this type of competitive environment.  What would you suggest alternatively?

2. I would probably go with 21 fighters and the trappers but that's because I like to mess with Frenzied troops and make people stress about them in deployment.

awesome idea.  that almost seals it for me.  dang little guys arent painted yet though.....

5. Leadbelchers do suck. They are terrible and overcosted. Having said that... I always took 2 units of 2 to my GT events. They are good for scaring off smaller units, flyers, fast movers, etc. They can also be useful at redirection but less so with swift reform in the game. I would use them to guard the rear of my Ogre character unit and guard my Scrappy in 7th. I would probably do the same now.

Awesome!  This is one of the units I am most uncertain about, but they always seem to do their job on the table.  I'm glad someone else has had positive experience using them this way!

Thanks Randroid!

Personally, I think 20 Gnoblars + Champ is better than 21 gnoblars. Simply because they can be deployed in the Watchtower at the start. Gives you an option...

Enchanted shield is nowhere in the ogre book. are they allowed to even use it? and seems odd a bsb could use it

Its in the common magic items in the BRB. Any army can use the items from them unless specifically said otherwise. Every other army has the enchanted shield in their army book at a higher price. Only ogres get it at 5 pts. I never leave home without it.

1) I've won tournies with a similar list.  My only concern is that the MMUs of bulls will get sliced up before they get to strike in combat.  Your toughest CC opponents will probably be WoC and oddly enough HE.  Even if your bulls get most of their attacks back, the other units will likely be steadfast and stick around for a second round, which is long enough to grind down your numbers in the second round of the attrition game and make the bulls break.  However, I realize that 3 units of 6 bulls is tactically much different than 2 units of 9 bulls or 1 unit of 18 bulls. (I usually run one of the second 2).  I think you'd do well against gunlines and magic lines like this, as you have backup units.


2-3)For gnoblars, take a unit of trappers.  Tremendously useful.  B2B by turn 2 is a nice idea, but snake eyes can happen.   Yes, they are warmachine hunters, but they also do other things.  They can block a vanguard move.  They can draw the fire of the warmachines while your ogres get closer.   They can get in the way of a nasty infantry block and flee the charge delay their arrival to the combat for a turn or so.  They can bait and flee frenzied units.  Given no better options, I just set them in the center of the field to be a future rune maw target(because we all know bicker happens when we need our gnoblar fighter screen to be marching).

4) I rarely take them.  But you'll be glad that you did when the purple sun of Xereus comes a sliding your way.

5) people in the know realize their potential and their awful drawbacks.  They are one of the most tactical units that we have.  I've had them do 1 wound to the target and 5 to themselves, I've also had them wipe out 9 dragon princes and I'm still getting used to them, so they are not in my tourney lists.  I've had much more success with Gorgers, with reliable effects both palpable and psychological.

Other comments:
On your tyrant, I think that the greyback pelt can be replaced by other more fitting items.  Anything thats likely to wound you through the TH/MS combo is pretty likely to hit you on 4s or 3s in the first place.   Wyrdstone necklace for 20 pts is superior to the greyback pelt as it helps you against poison autowounds and prevents 1/3 of the wounds that make it past rerolled T6 to wound rolls.  With the extra 15 points you can get the other tricksters shard on him and plop him at the center of the front of the IG unit.   That way, if you end up against enemies with ward, they reroll any successes.  This helps you against those silly demons, forest spirits, phoenix guard, and characters.  Also if he's gong in the IG, he doesn't need a GW as they already have S6 goodness.  I refer CLS or a magic weapon. 

Also, your general is stupid on rerollable 9s.  The odds are 1/36 to stumble forward.  At the wrong time thats a game breaker.  If you work in the +1 LD banner, thats 1/144, which is a bit more palatable.

And for the record, I put the Crown of command on my slaughtermaster too.  Usually my bsb has a magic standard or killing equipment instead.