Why Ogre Kingdoms?

Forum after forum is discussing the new tier structure for armies in light of the 8th ed tournament scene.

Most opinions go thus:

Top tier: Skaven, Lizardmen
Very Competitive: Demons, Dark Elves, Empire, Dwarves, VC
Definetely have a shot: Brettonians, Orcs and Goblins, High Elves
Can be competitive: Wood Elves, Tomb Kings
Dude you picked the wrong army: Beastmen, Ogres

While the order changes OK's are always at the bottom. Here in the Northeast the tournament scene is pervasive and everyone wants that rock hard army. Okay not everyone but enough to give you a headache of ogre-ish proportions. And I think we mostly agree OK's can use an update...

So why do Ogres? Why do you play Ogres?

Eric J

I think those tiers might be a bit wrong.

Regardless, I picked Ogres for a few reasons;
First, and most important, that I wanted an army where I could convert every single model, and Ogres are big and fun to convert.
Second, they're quite different from anything else I'd played.
Third, they're big and fat and coooool.

I picked them cause I love the models and fluff and I don't really buy into the whole 'tier' system, I think it depends 100% on the person playing them.

Also OK can be competitive at a tournament, I just tell kids i'm going to beat them up in the parking lot if they win.

It's amazing how many people change their tune about ogres after, or sometimes even during, a battle with me.  I have won more than I have lost in every event. I have ever taken ogres to, and my win sheet for 8th ed bears this out too.

Like everything it's about how you use them.

I think the ogres picked me rather than the other way around. They were my first warhammer army and are still my firm favourite.

I'm having a hard time seeing how Woodies are ranked above us.

The one thing they had to keep up away from them in 7th was taken away in 8th ed (terrain movement).

Why did I pick ogres?  They have awesome fluff, I'm not a power gamer in any way (neither are most of my friends) and they have a completely different play style to them.

Guess I'm just an unorthodox person who likes 'other than normal' because my first army was O&G (now playing mostly a Night goblin horde).  Animosity is much more of an annoyance without black orc characters...  But still fun

P.S.
I might be grabbing at air here, but I would maybe also put tomb kings below us...

Understand these aren't my tiers but just a more than general list conglomerate from a bunch of sites. I guess I'm interested in the type of builds you've all been playing against and what seems to be the most difficult to deal with as well....

Eric J

The problem with the tiers people have created is that they are often self fulfilling prophecies. For example:

Power Gamer A picks an army to take to the tournament. First he checks in with all the forums. 3 Forums all have posters that have agreed that Ogres just do not have the stuff to be a solid tournament army. Their Ld is a point lower than some of the others and without the special rules that prevent fleeing or panicking. They are expensive per wound. Their WS is low. They don't have Cannons for character sniping or access to the BRB Lores. Basically they play a different sort of army and so don't have an understanding how the Ogre army works and thus how it could possible win.

So now Power Gamer A has decided on another army, say, Skaven. He shows up to the tournament and the other Power Gamers have also picked armies from the top of those lists. This confirms his choices.

Little Timmy who's parents bought him some models shows up to the same tournament. He isn't a serious player and is mostly learning but really liked the Ogre idea and so bought Ogres. He really doesn't get Ogres all that well either, but he has put together an army based off what he thinks is cool and what was bought for him. The army is... shall we say "inefficient"? and he has poor tactical grasp but he is here for fun. Power Gamer A plays Timmy and slaughters him confirming for him that Ogres can't cut it in a tournament.

He doesn't happen to look down the table to where Wildcard's army is handing a VC army it's coat and showing them the door. If he does, well that can be explained away with luck or a really good general who would be even better with a "real army".

-------------------------------------------------------

I run into army bias all the time. I have on occasion been able to shove it back down their throats. Sometimes I can't. Sometimes I am just not good enough, or the army I am facing is "that army" that seems almost designed to take down my style of army, you know like the Skink Skirmishers spam, with Terradons, Salamanders, and a powered up Slann.

I had a guy online ask for a game not that long ago and when I placed my models he said: "ogre? LMAO I wanted a game." Luckily this time I got to make him eat those words. Thundermace does wonders when you put the centerhole on the Plague Furnace itself.

definately wrong tier...

in the tournament scene, i'm 6 win 2 loss... Faced Daemon, WoC, Empire, Bretonnian, Skaven, etc...

It's amazing how many people change their tune about ogres after, or sometimes even during, a battle with me.  I have won more than I have lost in every event. I have ever taken ogres to, and my win sheet for 8th ed bears this out too.

Like everything it's about how you use them.

I think the ogres picked me rather than the other way around. They were my first warhammer army and are still my firm favourite.

I've had a similar experience. In the last edition I played against a guy who played Wood Elves, Dark Elves (new book) and High Elves (with the new book), and bemoaned the fact that ogres were so overpowered. Dark Elves have been the only race I have not been able to regularly defeat.

definately wrong tier...

in the tournament scene, i'm 6 win 2 loss... Faced Daemon, WoC, Empire, Bretonnian, Skaven, etc...

I'm not saying that I agree with the tiers but I am asking if you think this prevailing attitude influences people to pick armies other than OK's or to drop them after experiences such as Mercules pointed out....

Eric J

Tiers are effectively like the advantage that white has over black in chess - they only make a difference if both players are playing the perfect game at the highest level. I recently absolutely steamrollered a Daemons army with Beastmen (which was my first ever game with them) and I often did the same to people with OK in 7th ed. At the end of the day, the basic Ogre model is S4 T4 with 3 attacks and 3 wounds - underestimate that at your peril.

The reason I started playing Ogres? Because I really love the aesthetics - big blocks of big (yet realistic) blocks.

At the end of the day, the basic Ogre model is S4 T4 with 3 attacks and 3 wounds - underestimate that at your peril.

lol... I have a buddy who plays WoC, (an army I play as well). He played against my Ogres for the first time last week. He charged a unit of 14 Warriors into my BSB and 7 'guts. After I trounced the unit and slammed into another he looked at me astonished and said, "Wow, I had no idea they can dish out so much punishment."

He surrendered in turn 5....

Eric J

lol... I have a buddy who plays WoC, (an army I play as well). He played against my Ogres for the first time last week. He charged a unit of 14 Warriors into my BSB and 7 'guts. After I trounced the unit and slammed into another he looked at me astonished and said, "Wow, I had no idea they can dish out so much punishment."

He surrendered in turn 5....

I'll be honest, this is another reason why I love Ogres - steamrollering stuff with impunity, overrunning and smashing apart another unit, with several units, across the board. It can leave a warm glow, especially if my opponent is obnoxious/has a 'cunning' plan.

35 pts/model.

25 model to paint to get a 2500 army.

that's all i needed.

I chose Ogres as my third army because I love the fluff (I'm a greenskin player too so that might explain it a bit - fighting and eating!  ), models and the whole army idea - a tribe of big, fat bandits who destroy, loot, eat and trade everything from their path.

The army isn't as used as Warriors of Chaos for an example, and the army was pretty cheap to buy. AND Ogres are fast army to play, good balance as my other armies are greenskins and undead. Monstrous infantry got some huge improvements, Gnoblars got steadfast, partial hits of Scraplauncher and Thundermace were gone... Actually everything got some buff (except the Yhetess, which are still rubbish  ).

Those tiers are either old or made by a player(s) who have never faced Ogres... Yes, in 7th edition this army wasn't very good, but nowadays Ogres are very potential army, I'd say about on the same class with Vampire Counts. I have played 10 games with Ogres and won 7 of them (5 by massacre) so this army just cannot be a bad one! 

- Cheers, Skarsnik.

Why I chose Ogres?

1. Easier to buy and paint
2. I liked their play style
3. Love the Ogre book layout
4. The Fluff is nice

I definatly agree, ogres are certainly not bottem tier, i played a tournement last weekend and won the whole thing, beating a twin HPA skaven list, a magic heavy vampire counts list and an empire artillery list, people are scared of my ogres, they USED to be bottem tier, not anymore, not quite top tier, but not bottem, middle ish maybe

i picked ogres because i love the fluff and i inherited my first few models, so i stuck with them and rolled with it!

Also, Beastmen as the lowest is silly.  The beastmen may not be the most competitive but they have no serious crippling weakness.  In fact I have a great deal of fun playing my beastmen and they have won more games than they have lost.

It's as if people list the tiers based on how many power lists a army book can make.

Tiers are effectively like the advantage that white has over black in chess - they only make a difference if both players are playing the perfect game at the highest level.

Or are poor-to-average players who take internet power lists. There, the difference also comes out.

when i decided to make the move from 40k to fantasy, i did it for the game competition, not for the fluff;i really don't like the fantasy genre in general (my army theme speaks volumes to that). 
so i looked at the armies:

humans, blah
dwarves, blah blah
elves, blah blah blah (one for each type of elf)
goblins and orcs, blah with the rest of them

undead, hate zombie movies
chaos, not truly chaotic
skaven, i hate mice
lizardmen, i already play tyranids

ogres??? what do you mean ogres? 
they're not the good guys, but their not the bad guys, but their not neutral, and they can be anywhere in the world?
their driving goal is fighting and food?
i can get behind that.


as for playing other armies:  ogres are the boulder rolling down at you.  you can side step it, run away from it or blow it up before it gets to you... but you can never ignore it.

Or are poor-to-average players who take internet power lists. There, the difference also comes out.

That is true. A crappy player with a "power list" will beat a crappy player with a "mediocre list" most of the time.

It's as if people list the tiers based on how many power lists a army book can make.

Good. The number of powerlists any particular army can make matters when ranking the army on any powerscale. The Bugatti Veyron can use up to 1001 horsepower, but the fact that a driver will almost never use half of that doesn't make it any less of a powerful car.

ogres are the boulder rolling down at you.  you can side step it, run away from it or blow it up before it gets to you... but you can never ignore it. 

I'll (quite) steal you that !

Great minis, fantastic play style, Gnoblars, fun to play... What else can I say?

Ah, yes, a friend of mine arrived 3rd in 2 consecutive tournaments...