Army Experimentation and Tournament Training - A Gnoblog by Sandals

Hello there!

Even though my Ogre army is about a year old, I feel the need to document things from time to time and have decided to create a Gnoblog to keep track of my latest projects - whatever they turn out to be. First off, a little bit of backgroud for yours truely, for those that may be interested.

On Gaming - I've been playing Warhammer in all it's forms since i was 10 and picked up the 2nd ed Warhammer 40,000 boxed set for my birthday. My first painted models were Blood Angel Space Marines, and I still have them - despie how awful they look! I spent most of my time playing 40K until i decided to branch out into Fantasy. This was the around the time 4th edition was finishing up, and though I played one or two games under those rules, it was 5th that really got me going. Warriors of Chaos were my first army, based around Tzeentch and it was great fun. I kept playing both up until 40K's death (in my eyes) with the release of 5th, since then I have focused on Fantasy as my main game. [Though as an aside, the Dark Eldar are tempting me to start 40K again...]

I mostly play in tournaments. This is not because I am some sort of WAAC obsessed maniac, but more because I like the ambiance of playing many games over the course of a day or two with a group of like minded fellows. This does mean that I gear all of my armies for tournament play - meaning no tailoring for what I know is coming. I build a list in a vacuum, not knowing what I may play next, and then adapt and change it as my practices dictate. I occasionally do well, but mostly I finish mid-table. My best results have been a 3rd Place at Carnage North 2007 for Fantasy, playing with my Lizardmen, and for 40K I managed a 2nd in Carnage North 2006 and 8th and the Grand Tournament Heat 1 in the same year, both using Dark Eldar.


On Modelling - I'd like to think of myself as a decent painter. I'm never going to win a Golden Daemon, or even come close, but my armies look good when they are displayed as a gaming force. That being said, most armies I own have been rush painted in a short space of time as I am usually prepping them for a tournament. I want to find an idea for an army that I can spend some time over, and that may become a focus of this blog down the line. I like conversions, but I tend not to do too much with basic figures. I paint them because I like them, and never have a great deal of time to do major work to the bulk of my army.


On Me - I'm 28, I live near Leicester in the UK and I'm getting married next June. I work in finance for the Leicester Mercury and I used to be a Teacher of Maths. I know Wildcard from when I used to work at GW Leicester, and if you ever pop in there, a lot of the stuff they have painted is still mine, including the Ogre army! As well as playing Fantasy, I love Blood Bowl (my favourite GW game ever!) and I spent a long time playing World of Warcraft over the last few years, though I don't play that much any more.

I plan to start this with a few pictures of my Ogre Kingdoms army, and as I have more Bulls to paint for an upcoming tournament, I will post a rundown of how I paint them.

Thanks for reading, and I hope people will enjoy this as much as I will!!!

Looking forward to watching and learning a thing or two.

OK, I have managed to get some photos done of my Ogre army. I'm not sure if the pictures will come out well, as my camera isn't the best, but it gives an idea of how they look. I'm also not sure how they will appear on the site, as I've not uploaded photos before. Hints and tips appreciated!!!

To start with, my characters.

My newest addition, the Avatars of War Tyrant. I love this figure, and I think it's the best painted Ogre I've managed to date.


Another view of this guy.


My original Tyrant, and another of my favourite Ogre models.


One of only two real conversions in the army, my BSB. Built from a Hunter, as I had no intention of using him as he was with his current rules. He does just about fit onto a 40mm base!


And my Butchers. Both are not quite finished, but I got them to the stage that I could use them at the tournament I was going to and never went back. This is becoming quite common for me, and is something I want to rectify.

The main parts of any army, the units.

Bulls. I have enough to make two units of 8 at the moment, and though they are armed with Additional Hand Weapons, they are mostly ran naked in games. I find as long as all my units are equipped the same, this is not an issue.




Ironguts. I originally ran these as two units of 4 in 7th ed, both with standards. This means I only have 7 to use in one unit at the moment, but I plan to add more at some point.

Flanking units now.

Starting with Leadbelchers. I'm a fan of these, but I can't quite seem to fit them into my army list at the moment. The Swift Reform rule gives them a new lease on life as protection for the flanks of bigger blocks of Ogres.


The ever popular Gorger. I have 2, both the same but with different heads. Here's one of them.

And last but definately least, the Gnoblars.

At one stage in the midst of 6th Ed, I painted over 120 night goblins. Since then, I am horrified by the thought of painting more little greenskins. So, my Night gobbs very kindly volunteered to count as gnoblars for my ogre army


And the Scraplauncher. Scratch-built out of wood and string, just like the actual machine The only bits from the kit are the Rhinox, the Gnoblars, the Skis and the Bucket.

Blue!!!  This week I have been treated to a blue AND red Ogre army.  I love the diversity! 

Makes me wish I was a bit more adventurous on my colour scheme.

Yeah, I seem to have this thing with blue models...
I've done Blue for pretty much everything for a long time. I have/had Blue Empire, Tau, Lizardmen, Gothic ships, and now Ogres. At least I'm getting good at painting blue!!!


Anyway, the army list I used for my last tournament has been posted elsewhere, but I'll put it here as well. This is the third itteration of Ogres for me, going from MSU to gradually bigger units. I wanted to try the whole Tyrant supported by a Maneater thing to hold up enemy units, and I think it seemed to work fine. I used the AoW Ogre as my Tyrant, and the GW Tyrant as a Maneater.
The BSB and Butcher joined the Ironguts to make a unit of 9, and the SM generally went about on his own, occasionally joining one of the Bull units.

Lords
Tyrant - Fencer's Blades, Glittering Scales, Talisman of Endurance, Mawseeker
Slaugtermaster - Dispel Scroll, Bloodcleaver, Wyrdstone Necklace

Heroes
Bruiser - BSB, HA, CLS, Crown of Command, Enchanted Shield, Mawseeker
Butcher -  Skullmantle, Ironcurse Icon

Core
8 Bulls - Standard, Bellower
8 Bulls - Standard, Bellower
7 Ironguts - Standard, Bellower, LOG, Banner of Swiftness
20 Gnoblars - Groinbiter

Special
Scraplauncher

Rare
Gorger
Gorger
Maneater - HA, GW

Speaking of blue, your skin tone is actually the one I'm looking for !! Yet I didn't manage to paint them as I want. What did you use ? It seems quit basic but very nice !

I love your Scrappie, especially the Gnobos pulling the scrap

I'll go into it in more detail probably at the weekend when I can start painting my new Bulls, but it is basically Shadow Grey and Space Wolves Grey mixed in various quantities. I painted an entire Ogre army for the Leicester GW when they first came out, and I got really bored of that skin tone, plus I couldn't remember how we mixed it.

I actually based these off some of the ogres in World of Warcraft, I'll see if i can find a picture. If anyone knows WoW, I really want to do a Butcher like the Ogre Mages - with two heads! I'm just not that great at converting and using Green Stuff, but if I get around to it I'll put some pictures up.

I actually based these off some of the ogres in World of Warcraft, I'll see if i can find a picture.

I know what you mean, it's my aim too

The army looks cool, but the pictures are so blurry it's hard to tell how nice the skin looks.

Yeah, not sure how to get my camera to take better pictures. It has this self-focus thing, and I can't get it to stop doing that and do what I want it to do!

I'll have another go at some point and replace the pictures if they are better.

Does it have a macro feature (little button or picture of a flower)? Use that.
A couple tips I've found useful, and easy;
- Use a background. A simple sheet of solid colored paper (white usually), or something else without any detail for the camera to focus on.
- Set the camera on something. If you can't jury rig a stand into a good position, use good camera holding technique (see below).
- Hold the camera with both hands, and make get as much contact with your hands and the table as possible. This makes for a smoother shot. Also, one thing that makes a surprising difference is the position of your elbows- down, touching your sides makes for a steadier frame than when they are spread out.

OK, time to ignore my dodgy camera work and get back to the second aspect of this Blog, tournament training.

I've had a bit of a rethink about my army list that I posted above. I'm not sure why, but the 9 ironguts were never able to defeat the elite part of my opponants army. They were a big target for shooting, and generally were down to about 5 guts when they got to anything. This led to them being beaten quite soundly on a number of occasions and only hanging around due to the BSB.
As well as this, even a unit of 8 Bulls didn't seem to be winning as many combats as they should be. I had a little success when I joined my SM to a unit, but that didn't seem to last long either as they were soundly beaten in the next game.

So, my new plan - Bull Horde!!!

I've wanted to try a Horde of ogres since 8th came out, but I tend to shy away from eggs-in-one-basket type of armies up to this point. After losing 2 out of 3 at Open War though, I thought it was about time I tried something different.

Bulls over Ironguts was the major decision to be made. I went for Bulls for what seemed to be a good reason - a lot of the Hordes I have seen (Greatswords, Marauders etc) are using Great Weapons. The only way to really combat this is to go before them. This won't (really) have a noticeable effect in the first round, but come turn 2 of the combat you will go first again, and this should cut down their attacks back considerably.

So I present my latest incarnation of my army list. Still at 2400 points, as this is the level of the next event I'm attending.

Lords
Tyrant: Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, Sword of Anti Heroes, Ironfist, Heavy Armour, Potion of Speed, Dragonbane Gem
318 points

Slaughtermaster: Bloodcleaver, Wyrdstone Necklace, Dispel Scoll
270 points

Heroes
Bruiser: BSB, Heavy Armour, Cathayan Longsword, Look out Gnoblar, Enchanted Shield, Mawseeker, Crown of Command
222 points

Butcher: Skullmantle, Ironcurse Icon, Relic Sword
165 points

Core
17 Bulls: Full Command
645 points

6 Bulls: Musician
220 points

5 Ironguts: Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
280 points

20 Gnoblars
40 points

Special
Scraplauncher
165 points

Rare
Gorger
75 points


Comes in to exactly 2400 points, which is always nice.

I've decided to make my Tyrant into a character killer. He's very hard for normal infantry to hurt, and should hopefully - with the BSB and Champion - tie up a large proportion of the enemy that would otherwise be killing Bulls. The Butcher concentrates on buffing the Horde, and adds to their general abilities with his gear. He also has the Relic Sword in case a Steam Tank (or something else hard) rumbles my way. The SM goes with the Guts, and gereally they are there to take out hard stuff and monsters, hence the Flaming banner. I doubt a lot of magic will be directed at them, so I can afford not to have the Runemaw on them.

The plan is to put the Tyrant, BSB and Butcher in the Horde, and the SM in the Guts. Plan boils down to point and click - not subtle, but easy to do.

I've played 2 games with this army, and if I get a chance I will post a rundown of the major points from these games so people can suggest things I can do to improve.

The first game I played with the Horde was against my regular opponant, using his Bretts for the first time in 8th. He had a decent selection of units, not really a tough, battlehardened army but more a "let's see what this does". He had managed to squeeze in two Bret Lords though, as well as a BSB and 2 Level 2 damsels. There were 2 units of 9, 2 units of 6, 4 pegs, 2 lots of archers, some Men at arms and a Trebuchet.

We played Dawn Attack, so I had little choice over my delpoyment. My Horde ended up in the middle, the gnoblars to the left and the other ogres to the right. He ended up spread all over, so there wasn't really a specific point to aim my Horde at.

The key points of the game happened in the first 2 turns. First key point was a failed Stupidity test on turn one. Even with Ld 9 and a re-roll, this is going to happen occasionally and it's something I have to get used to.
After a little manouvering in turn one, i moved up to threaten charges on the two 9 man knight units. I misjudged this though, and in his turn he charged the Ironguts with his Lord and Errants, and his BSB and Questing knights had just enough room and movement to move past my big block. This meant I wouldn't get a charge in the whole game with them.
The ironguts took three rounds, and a flee rally and second charge, but they killed all the knights they were fighting. The gorger killed the Trebuchet and static archers, and the Pegasus killed the other ogre unit thanks to some truely aweful rolls on my part.
The final key showed me just how tough the Horde is. He managed a charge with two of his three knight units, Grail in the front and Questing in the flank. He killed lots of ogres, but i wiped out the Grail knights and held, mostly due to the Crown.

The main thing I learnt was that the Horde is easily out-manouvered by some opponants. But it is also very resiliant. It can take a charge from almost anything and survive, as long as the BSB isn't killed.

From this game, I re-designed my Tyrant to be much more unkillable - Tricksters Helm instead of the Tenderiser he did have in this game. I need to stop things from killing ogres, as even 17 isn't that much. I'm also not sure what the small Bull unit can do. It's too expensive to throw away, but it's not killy enough to hold it's own. Needs practice I think.

The blue skin has come up sensational.  You must be very happy with it.

I am, thank you Jimmy. Despite the photos being dodgy, the models actually look quite good when all lined up together!

Anyway, the second game I played with my Horde list was against a Skaven list that proved very strong. He had a Bell, a Furnace, 2 Doomwheels, big units of slaves, monks and vermin, plague cencers, 6 Rat Ogres and 5 jezzails. And, perhaps most importantly, 6 warlock engineers. Only one of these was a Level 1, the others were there to get in the way.

This was a job they did to such an extent that I was soundly thrashed. At the end, only the Scraplauncher and 10 gnoblars were left.

My Horde unit was suckered into marching straight at the plague monks, and 3 engineers sat themselves in front of it in a line. This meant that whilst I got the charge, I could only charge a single 15pt engineer and then get countercharged by a doomwheel, the rat ogres and the cencer bearers. Whilst my unit excited me by being able to win this combat, it took 2 rounds and this left me vulnerable to a second charge my the vermin. This again kept me in a position to be charged by the furnace.

Both the Ironguts and the smaller unit of Bulls got eaten on the other flank. The guts failed a charge and were stuck in the wrong place, whilst the Bulls charged the other Doomwheel to try and hold it up. They died horribly, ran off and the Wheel pursued into the guts. It then killed them in short order in the next turn.

The scraplauncher misfired on it's one chance to fire, then it spent the rest of the game trying and failing to charge something. The gnoblars lost half their number to a Warp Lightning, then were hit by the Doomwheel that had killed the other units. They seemed 'doom'ed ( :p ) but it then had to shoot, misfired and killed itself! Score one for the Gnoblars!


Overall I was outplayed and outclassed. It gave me a lot to think about. I was really pleased with the Tyrant and BSB in this one, as the held on their own against the Vermin and the Furnace's unit once the Horde had been killed, and despite liberal applications of Wither they proved incredably difficult to kill. Only when the BSB finally went down (after Death-Frenzied Vermin decided he was squishier than the Tyrant) did the Tyrant leg it and was killed.

I was still dissatisfied with the small Bull unit, and having the SM in the Guts sounds good on paper, but he was killed and the Butcher wasn't enough to buff the Horde. so I'm swapping them and their kit - the SM gets the Mantle and ICI, and the Butcher gets the Scroll.

I'm also dropping the Bulls. I've had problems figuring out their use, and I wanted something to use as a flanking unit. So I'm making some alterations and I get 3 Leadbelchers with a Bellower and a second Gorger in their place. I have to lose the Champion in the Horde and the Butchers' Relic Sword to get this, but it's probably worth it.

So, my list now looks like:

Lords
Tyrant: Mawseeker, Trickster's Helm, Sword of Anti Heroes, Ironfist, Heavy Armour, Potion of Speed, Dragonbane Gem
318 points

Slaughtermaster: Bloodcleaver, Wyrdstone Necklace, Skullmantle, Iron Curse Icon
270 points

Heroes
Bruiser: BSB, Heavy Armour, Cathayan Longsword, Look out Gnoblar, Enchanted Shield, Mawseeker, Crown of Command
222 points

Butcher: Dispel Scroll
155 points

Core
17 Bulls: Bellower, Standard
625 points

5 Ironguts: Musician, Standard, Banner of Eternal Flame
280 points

20 Gnoblars
40 points

Special
Scraplauncher
165 points

3 x Leadbelchers: Bellower
175 points

Rare
Gorger
75 points

Gorger
75 points


Still 2400 points if my maths is right!

Just wondering...when the first engineer died, panic test trigger for a friendly unit being destroyed within 6"

The other engineers on their own wouldn't have any rank bonus....did they pass their tests on their pitiful leadership of was a general and bsb in range?  Still only 7 with a re-roll though, surprised they all hung in there.

We do have something for this though - brace of handguns! Removes fanatics too and maybe even weapon teams with a little luck.  Tyrant is BS4 after all...

Just wondering...when the first engineer died, panic test trigger for a friendly unit being destroyed within 6"

General and BSB. General within 18" thanks to the Bell. We were playing The Pass, so not very spread out. I can imagine that it's a risky tactic due to Panic, but with Ld7 rerollable and 2 of them, it would have been unfortunate for them both to flee.

If I could find the points, the Handguns would probably be a good idea. Though you'd be doing well to kill one in one round's shooting, even with the Tyrant's BS. To be effective you'd probably need the Bruiser to have them too, and that's more points...

Two towers skaven is pretty nasty for ogres, tis true.  Still even one failed test and he could, theoretically lose huge chunks of his army....not too likely though.

Well I'm back from my latest tournament, time to try a bit of analysis of how it went. I'm going to steal the write ups I did from another thread, but after this I'll be going into what I thought of my performance, my list, and what improvements I think need to be made.

"Well, I had a mixed bag of results on day 1.

Game 1 was against Daemons. 3 big blocks of infantry - 1 horrors, 1 'letters and 1 plaguebearers. There were the typical 12 flamers, and 4 heralds - 2 tzeentch (Life and Shadow) and 1 for eack of the others.
I had a bit of a nightmare with this one. I failed every charge until turn 5, mostly by an inch. By the time I made it into combat with my Horde, the SM was dead from an application of Dwellers. The Ironguts went for the Plaguebearers to use their Flaming banner to the full, but after he charged me I managed something like 6 hits and only a single wound.

Result - 0 vs 1200. That's right, I failed to get any points at all.

Game 2, and another Daemon army, this time with smaller blocks, 'nettes instead of 'bearers and a Bloodthirster. This one went better. I made a charge on the 'letters and went through them like a hot knife through butter. Then my opponant made a bit of an error, he moved his horrors out of the building they were in and I could get a charge on their rear with my horde. There they kinda stopped, 4+ ward is nasty. Plus, a failed dispel on Flesh to Stone making them T7 for the next turn. Then the Bloodthirster happened. He piled into the Horde, but only could hit the end of the unit. This was where the SM was, hence 1 dead SM. However, the Tyrant then issued the challenge of his life - taking on the big guy. Not that much of a risk though, as the Thirster had Flaming attacks and hence the 5pts for the Dragonbane Gem paid for itself in spades! Two rounds later, one dead Thirster. :-)

Result - 2000 vs 1200. My first VPs!

Game 3 saw me against Lizardmen. Usual loadout - life Slann, 3 big blocks, some skinks and a Chief on a Steg. This doesn't end well, as I couldn't dispel anything for three straight turns and my Tyrant and SM were Dwellered away. The high points were getting a charge on his Steg, and managing to take it out in a few combat rounds, and the other high point was a gnoblar shooting down a Chameleon Skink!!! Despite a brave resistance from the BSB, I was eventually wiped out.

Result - 750 to 2600.

So, 1 win and 2 losses so far. Now to see what tomorrow brings!"

"OK, on to Day Two. I wasnt that pleased with my performance on Day one, bu tI had managed a win. My aim with these tournaments is to end up with at least a .500 record, so I needed 2 wins on day 2 to achieve this.

Game 4 - Some very familiar Wood Elves (Courtesy of our very own FantasyFreak!)

Blood and Glory for this one, so very close to each other. A bit of manouvering on turn one saw his Trees advane towards my Horde and Guts. The Horde decided that three ( ) Treemen were too much, and backed off a bit - the Guts got their best Lumberjack impressions going though and charged in. 4 Flaming wounds later it was toast and I overran towards his only real Fortitude in the shape of a Glade Guard unit with the BSB. They were a bit too shot up to make it in though, and though the Butcher made it in he was killed in combat. The Gorgers had turned up though, and they went into the back of the Glade Gurad and held them up for the rest of the game. After a little manouvering, I was in an unfavourable position, and was really forced to charge the Treeman Ancient. With the buffs I had, I thought I had a chance to take him out - I was T8 and was going to be Str 7 in combat if I got my buff through in that magic phase. I went to cast it - IF. Arse. Cue a roll of a 1 on the Miscast and a dead SM. Now I was in trouble. I fought my hardest and hung around for ages, doing 4 wounds to the Ancient over 6 rounds of a challenge, despite Nettlings being Annoying. I only took 3 wounds in return, Trickster's Helm proving great. But with an eventual combination of two Treemen and the Treekin, I eventually lost the rest of my Horde - losing my Fortitude and the game. Most of the points I picked up were due to the Scraplauncher going mental on the last 2 turns ad charging and running through 2 Dryad units.

Result - 600 vs 3000 (Breaking Fortitude gave a bonus 1200 vps rather than an auto win.)


Game 5 gave me yet another Daemon army. This was the one that Wildcard had played in Round 1, and was much more themed than the other 2. 3 blocks of 30 plaguebearers each with a Herald, a Tzeentch Life Herald, 2 units of 4 flamers and a GUO.
Deployment saw me lose the Ironguts, so I had to wait for the first turn for them to show up. They were charged by one of the units, but with the Flaming banner and some decent dice, together with him being away from the BSB and General, he eventually Popped this unit to death. I took one unit of plaguebearers down to just under 20, and the way he was positioning meant I was going to have to engage the GUO in order to get this unit. I made the charge, but the GUO issued a challenge. I knew he was bound to have the Balesword, and looking back I should have refused. But the Tyrant accepted. I hoped he would fail to kill me by only hitting once, but two hits saw him killed. I just could not finish off the BSB Herald in the unit, and this saw me lose a fair number of Ogres. The BSB kept me in the fight though, CoC is awesome. Eventually I did kill the herald, and after that I did enough damage to Pop the rest of the unit. The GUO kept killing ogres, usually two a turn, so I reformed to give me my ranks back. Unfortunately this brought my BSB into combat with it, and down went another ogre hero. I kep doing wounds to it though, and the game ended with it on one wound facing off against the remnants of the Horde and the SM - no points for either of us. Whilst this went on, the Scraplauncher had its glory moment - it landed a shot dead on the Tzeentch Herald, rolled a 6 to wound and he failed his Ward! Yay! The Ironguts, after having seen off one block went for the other block. they each did some damage to each other, I fled and rallied on the last turn - again, no points each. The leadbelchers - who had been holding up this third unit to stop them flanking the Horde - were taken to one wound left on the last remaining guy by being flamered. The Gorgers suffered the same fate. Adding it up, despite being mauled by the GUO, I had only lost the Tyrant BSB and Gorgers. He had lost 2 big units and three heralds including the BSB.

Result - 1200 vs 800. A pretty surprsing win!


Game 6 was Watchtower and was against Goblins. This was one of the most amusing games I have played in ages. He had bucketloads of Night Goblins, icluding 5 wizards and 4 Warbosses! There was also a unit of 6 River Trolls, 2 chariots, 2 Wolf Rider units and some war machines.

He got the tower, and put a unit of 20 NG archers in. I set up my Guts to charge them, the Horde to go round the flank of the building and take on the rest of his army, and the Leadbelchers to protect the flank of the Guts. He had a Scouting Warboss who managed to charge my Scraplauncher in turn 1, stopping it from doing a great deal of damage - it probably killed a third of a unit over the course of the game from shooting. It did get a Wolf Rider unit and the Warboss in combat though.
This game hinged on one thing. In my turn 2 he failed his Leadership test for the unit in the Tower and they fled, letting me in with the Guts. These fought off 3 rounds of combat from the trolls and held the Tower until the end.
The Horde took on the rest of his entire army and came out kicking. It was harder work than it should have been, Nets are a nightmare. I was buffing to get back to normal strength! The Tyrant was made for this though, at one point getting 9 attacks against a goblin unit. He was a little unfortunate, as he got both my BSB and my SM down to one wound left at one point, before the SM remembered which end of the Bloodcleaver to hit people with...

Result: 3000 to 175. (Again, holding the tower gave a 1200 bonus) He only got the Leadbelchers, which doesn't really reflect how tough this game actually was. I doubt I could have taken the Trolls in a straight fight, the -1 to hit really hurts when you're the same weapon skill.


Overall, I was quite happy. 3 wins and 3 losses put me somewhere in the middle. I didn't stay for the results so I'll find out later in the week when they're posted online. Good fun though, can't wait for the next event!"

As far as the performance of my army goes, I think the biggest form of analysis has to come down to the Horde. It is the heart and soul of this list, and as it goes so do the games. Overall I have to say I'm unimpressed. They managed a lot of attacks on a lot of occasions, but they never seemed to actually kill that many of the enemy. Their high point was going straight through the Bloodletters in Game 2, and the amount of damage they could dish out vs the Goblins in Game 6, but even in these occasions I was left feeling slightly let down. Part of me feels this is my dice, as I never rolled particularly well, but it comes down to the fact that WS3 just doesn't cut it. They also tended to die rather easily. They never ran away, but that is more down to the BSB than their awesome ability, but even basic attacks killed a couple every turn.

I'm not really sure how to remedy this. It's not possible to improve the WS of Ogres, and I'm getting as many attacks as I can out of the unit. The one point here is that they were never as buffed as I would have liked them to have been, and the one game where they were (Game 4) the SM blew himself up and removed all of the buffs just as I needed them.

One option is to try and protect more of the unit by having more charcters in there to be hit first. Another T6 Bruiser would be great, as the BSB soaked up the damage really well - especially as I usually challenged with him to ensure he was alaive at the end of combat. There are few Heroes that can kill him, and if they accept with a Champion then he lives to do his main job.

I'll go more into evaluating the characters next.

My characters did me proud, and the victory parade is lead by the BSB. I thin khe only died in two of the games, and his CoC kept me in fights long after another unit would have run away. He's tough enough, killy enough and useful enough that he will be unchanged and in every list I write.

Rating: 10/10

The Tyrant also did a fine job, culminating in his defeat of a Greater Daemon of Khorne in a one-on-one fight. If he's not going to get a proper Ward save - which is an option I'm toying with - then he is definately keeping the Dragonbane Gem. Against the right opponant it justifies it's cost instantly. I forgot about his Potion of Speed in every game, though I think this is down to having to use it at the start of the turn rather than the start of the CC phase. I can't think of anything else I could have spent the points on, so it's no biggie. I actually prefer this defensive combination to the Ninja build, it somehow seems more fitting for an Ogre to be tough to hurt than hard to hit. the one game where it made a difference was against the GUO, but just one 6 rolled against the Ninja build could kill him as easily as mine died, so it's a special case IMHO. The Sword was a decent buy, especially as it allowed me the Ironfist as a shield too. There were the odd occasion where there were no characters, but they tended to be fights I could win anyway. I think I'll keep him as he is for now and get some more games under his belt.

Rating: 8/10

As a second caster, the Butcher filled his role nicely. There were a few key times where his Dispel Scroll wasn't used, usually as I had failed a dispel with him or he was dead. The scroll is a nice thing to have, but I found that I missed a more combat orientated option in the Ironguts. There were many times when he was in combat he could have used a decent weapon. I'm not sure a second caster is vitally important, but it's a nice thing to have. Especially as it gives two goes at the crucial spells a turn, but more often than not the short range of the Butcher means he only buffs his own unit.

Rating: 6/10

The greatest disappointment was the SM. He was increadibly useful to have for dispelling purposes - except against the Lizards when he forgot how to dispel anything... The Bloodcleaver is nice, but with 4 attacks at WS4 he's going to get a wound if he is lucky against anything that is decent in combat. The Wyrdstone Necklace didn't fail me once, but that's more than a bonus than a point to rely on. However, I completely forgot both the Skullmantle and the ICI for the entire tournament. More my issue than his, but it's worth bearing in mind. His biggest fail was his spells. He just couldn't get the buffs to stick for any length of time. I think this may be down to my tactics of going for everything on 2 dice - the theory is sound but it just didn't cut it against the dispelling ability of my opponants. Maybe Grut's Scickle would let me risk 1 dice more, and therefore get more spells out.

Rating: 5/10

Overall, I think the design of the army has to dictate the design of the characters, and I'm not sure I hit it quite right. I went for a bit of a mish-mash of effects - the Tyrant was hard to kill but people could avoid him and attack the unit, the BSB could survive in a challenge against a weaker opponant, but I had no-one to protect him against a really hard foe.

Overall rating: 7/10
Some impovements needed, but a solid base to build on.

One way of getting more attacks put of the bull unit would be to give them ironfists and a champion.  It might only be the front rank hitting, but for a horde that's like having 2 more ogres in the fight...

There was a list simliar to that above one with 2 Tyrants and 2 Firebellies, might be a bit more competitive with the breathweapons but buffs are good too.  Maybe drop a level 2 on one of the butchers to grab a hellheart. Otherwise, goodluck!

I'd love to have taken this advice, but I can't. I don't have a Firebelly model, and they have banned the Hellheart. Otherwise the entire list would be very different!

So, after some soul-serching, a conversation with Wildcard and a plea to the TOs, I have managed to finally put together something that resembles an army list. Based on the last one, but with some more support and thanks to the TO agreeing that my converted scraplauncher has enough cannon in it to count as an Ironblaster! So, this is what I will be taking...

Lords
Tyrant: General, Heavy Armour, Ironfist, Dragonhelm, Talisman of 5+ Ward, Sword of Striking
Tyrant: Additional Hand Weapon, 5+ Ward Armour

Heroes
Bruiser: BSB, Look Out Gnoblar, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of 4+ Ward
Butcher: Level 2, Maw
Butcher: Level 2, Maw
Butcher: Dispel Scroll, Rock Eye, Relic Sword, Maw

Core
7 Bulls: Ironfists, Full Command, Look out Gnoblar
7 Bulls: Ironfists, Full Command, Look out Gnoblar
7 Ironguts: Full Command, +1Ld Banner

Special
3 Individual Sabretusks
2 Gorgers

Rare
Ironblaster

Total = 2397

My General and BSB both now have a 3+ Armour Save and a good Ward, and the other Tyrant is cheap as chips for what he does. I have the Rock Eye, essential in a Closed List event, and a second Magic Weapon - though it is on the Butcher. It looks better, but I still am not sure if it can stand up to the top of the pile lists. Guess I will have to see how it goes!

So, yet again i have let this fall idle. Oh well, time for some speed recapping!

Open War went ok, despite the results outlined below. I wasn't using what I considered a "new book" army, but learnt quite a bit about what the various units can and can't deal with.

Game 1: Empire
I had grudged Mark Wildman for game 1, as I've not played him before and have always meant to down at our local club. Having listened to Bad Dice, I knew he was on a break from his Beastmen and was building up a Tomb King army. However, this wasn't finished so out came his Empire to oppose me. This was not the best of news, as my only practice game had been against Empire and I had lost, despite the Sabretusks doing a sterling job of eating Pistoliers!
He had a pretty standard Empire list, including Pope, Tank, Shadow Magic and war machines. However, his big infantry unit was Swordmen deployed deep, and he had a big block of knights.

From what I remember, I failed to kill the Tank with the Ironblaster, and it rammed into the Ironguts I was trying to keep away from it. They eventually killed it, but it took too long. The rest of my army went after the knights, who got a long range charge and with Mindrazor wiped out a unit. I then countered with my other unit, but just couldn't kill enough even with a big set of impact hits. It took longer, and a flank charge by the Swordsmen (who had Mindrazor) to wipe them out too. He could then get into position to kill the Ironguts too.
I did manage to kill his Pope with a Gorger, along with a Peg Captain and some other bits and pieces, but eventually everything died. Big loss, but learnt a few things from it and Mark was a great opponant. He said that without Mindrazor, he probably would have lost most of the combats - but then that's why it's such a nasty spell.

Game 2 was against High Elves. His army was, from what I can remember, made up of 2 Sea Guard units, and small blocks of White Lions, Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard. His mage was on Life and he didn't have a BSB for some reason.
He gave up his Eagle early by letting me charge it with 2 Sabretusks, and these then kept the White Lions busy for long enough for me to deal with the Sea Guard. I isolated a block of them in deployment, and he kept his Phoenix Guard well away from anything. as it contained his general.

There were two keys to this game. First was his complete inability to make Leadership tests - he failed Fear in most of the combats, and subsequently ran away once I had killed enough elves to cancel out his Steadfast. I told him afterwards that a Ld 8 army really needs a BSB, and I think I convinced him to take one in future.

The second key was the turn I had to engage his fighty blocks - I IF'd the bubble Trollguts. No skill involved, other than ensuring all units were within 12" and chucking 6 dice at it. As I had dealt with the Flaming banner the turn before, I was able to munch through both the swordmasters and phoenix guard with very little damage taken. It was then a simple matter of running down the white lions, who had spent the game hunting sabretusks

A big win sent me back up towards the middle, and a gent who Wildcard had just beaten on his way to glory...

Game 3 was against Daemons, or more specifically 90 Bloodletters and some chaff...

I knew I couldn't take them 1 on 1, and I knew I couldn't let them flank me. So my only real option was to punch through one of the units and Overrun, and hope to be able to double up on another late on. I used my gorgers to hold up his fiends, and the sabretusks went for the furies. Turn 2 I managed to get the doubel charge, but didn't roll hig enough for the extra impacts and this was the key. I did a bucketload of damage to the unit, helped by bubbling Bullgorger in the magic phase so I was wounding on 2+. However, irritatingly I rolled really poorly to wound on my stomps and after the smoke of his Ld test had cleared, he had 3 wounds left in the unit, pinning me in place. I was then flanked and killed.

This was a bit of a trange game, as it was all over so quickly. I think with a different army build, or some more experience, I could have won this, but my opponant did well with his positioning and forced me to go for it.


Overall, 1 win and 2 losses - all big swings one way or the other. I actually enjoyed running two Tyrants, and having 3 blocks all at Ld9 made the army a lot more self-sufficient than the standard IG Deathstar. It's an angle I want to return to, but the next event I lined up was a 2000pt filth fest called No Holes Barred. I felt that it was time to rethink the list, and I started from the ground up with a concept to try and compete with what I imagined would be the sort of armies that would make an appearence at a no comp event. Details to follow...

Are you at winter incursion?

Yes, I'm just behind with my tournament updates!

So, part of my New Years Resolution was to update this more often. Considering the last time I talked about an event it was October, I have some back-tracking to do before I can move forward. Given the time-span involved, and my notoriously bad memory I'm going to do quick recaps of these events focusing on my feelings about the games and my list at each.


The first event was No Holes Barred, a 2000 point, very little comp event held at Maelstrom in November. Given that this would be my first event with a proper New Book list (discounting my cobbled together effort at Open War!) I thought I'd try something a bit different - shooty ogres.

Lords
Slaughtermaster: Level 4, Lore of the Heavens, Iron Fist, Dispel Scroll, Rock Eye, Dragonbane Gem, Sword of Striking

Heroes
Bruiser: BSB, Heavy Armour, Iron Fist, Look Out Gnoblar, Banner of Eternal Flame
Butcher: Level 1, Lore of the Great Maw, Ironfist, Hellheart

Core
7 Ironguts: Full Command, Standard of Discipline, Look Out Gnoblar
10 Gnoblars: Trappers
10 Gnoblars: Trappers
10 Gnoblars: Trappers

Special
1 Sabretusk
1 Sabretusk
1 Sabretusk
6 Leadbelchers: Musician
4 Leadbelchers: Musician

Rare
Ironblaster
Ironblaster


The plan relied on shooting to take the big blocks I expected to see down to a size where my reduced Gutstar could finish them off in Combat. The biggest choice that sticks out is the Lore on the SM. Heavens is a much under-rated Lore, and Harmonic Convergence especially works very well with a shooty list. Unfortunately this meant I had to have a Butcher rather than a Firebelly as my Hellheart caddy, but having Stubborn as a standard spell was often useful.
The Flaming Banner was another interesting choice. He was there to pop into the bigger unit of Leadbelchers if a Regenerating target presented itself, otherwise he was firmly a 2nd rank guy in the guts. He was not as vulnerable as I thought, so the Magic Banner option may be one to explore in the future.

Anyway, getting ahead of myself. I played 1 practice game, against Wildcard's list for the same event. He had a good run in this event (see his own thread on the subject) so it turns out that it was a decent test. It was mostly a stand-off, but he had first turn and got the upper hand instantly by killing an Ironblaster. I focused on the Leadbelchers, as a big unit of them is a big threat, but didn't manage to do enough damage to them quickly enough. There were no charges in this game by any ogres, but one of my trapper units very nearly killed an Ironblaster in the last turn with shooting! It ended up in a loss, but was a good game and gave me some good ideas for the tournament.

So, on to the event. I was drawn against Dwarfs in round one but my opponant didn't show so I was switched to playing Skaven.

He had 3 units of 40 slaves, 80 clanrats (yes, 80!) pushing the Bell, some chaff, 2 cannons and an Abomb. His BSB also had the Storm Banner. This was not a match-up that my army was suited to, and as expected I went down heavy. I had some chances, but things slowly started to go agaisnt me from the point I didn't kill the Abomb. I had put 3 flaming wounds on it from the Leadbelchers then hit it with an Ironblaster, but up came the dreaded 1 to wound. The Abomb then charged and killed the IB and a slave unit charged the flank of the Leadbelchers. I was expecting this, and thought I could do enough damage to hold, but lost the combat by 1 and failed the break test, even with a re-roll. I had then lost a flank and my IGs just couldn't kill enough rats to make a difference. (For anyone that is interested, I played the host of a Podcast and as such this is discussed on Ep 66 of Two Gamer Radio, as is my game 3)


Game 2 I played High Elves. I used to really struggle against Elves, but my record has been getting a lot better against them recently and I thought that my army selection gave me a decent chance in this game. He had a couple of archer units, a Seaguard unit, a big block of White Lions, 3 mages and 4 eagles. I remember this being a really tactical, close game with me taking out most of his support units whilst keeping the WLs occupied. In my last turn I had to put an Ironblaster in the way so the remnants of the WLs couldn't charge my SM, but in his they killed it and he paniced anyway. In this pack that gave away half points for him and turned a small win into a draw. Brilliant game and a great opponant.

Game 3 I drew Wood Elves. As there were only two WE armies at the event, I was slightly shocked to have run in to one of them. His army consisted of 99 various bow weilding elves, including a Noble, Lvl4, 18 Waywatchers and a BSB (the only elf without a bow). He deployed in the standard WE cresent, and having run into Mark Borland's cresent of death with Daemons I knew what his army was capable of. I had two options - sit back and take points where I can and try for a small win, or push it forward as fast as possible. Given that he had no combat threat whatsoever I chose the latter. This was a mistake, as the dice showed me just how wrong things could go. My turn 1 I miscast with the SM casting Chain Lightning, didn't kill many elves and Cascaded most of the Ironguts away. Luckily he didn't die, but Turn 2 I did something very similar and this time he did fall down the hole. The only things that got there were the gnoblars, and a unit of 10 managed one of the high points of my weekend by killing the HoDA Noble with only 3 attacks! It was eventually a big loss, but there wasn't really another option once I had decieded to go for it - it was going to be 20-0 one way or the other.

On to Sunday Morning and Game 4. I had been drawn against a guy I had played at Call to War and his Dwarfs. I had enjoyed the last game, and I expected to enjoy this one too. however, I made a huge mistake in forgetting that he had a Dwarf Hero in his scouting Rangers. I should have expected them to deploy in my grill and Master Rune of Challenge me (which he did) but I forgot all about this when I deployed. This meant that I was fighting an uphill battle from the start, as my big Leadbelcher block was stuck in combat turn 1. I was bottled in, and it was simple for him to move up and kill everything. I did have a chance, as I flanked his Ranger with the Ironguts and won by 6. However, he had runes on his banner that let him be Stubborn on a 4+ for a test, and whilst the first failed the second worked a treat and I was doomed. The other highlight was my Ironblaster who charged a block of Hammerers and directed all his attacks against the Runesmith. First round I did a wound and survived, and the second round it was the Gnoblar that killed him! Another big loss, but another good game.

Game 5 I was sitting on the bottom table with pretty much my only points having come from the draw in Round 2. I also had the misfortune to draw the other Wood Elf army! He had a much more varied force, having some Dryads, Treekin and a Treeman in addition to the archers. Since running at the last wood elf army didn't work, I castled up in a corner and went to take out the trees, thinking a minor win would set me up for the last round nicely. The plan was working, the flaming Leadbelchers doing a number on the treekin and threatening the treeman but the archers were really hurting my lines. Then a Comet hit. This was one spectacular comet, as it managed to hit all his archer units and left all three units with just a single model left. It was pretty simple then to wrap up as many points as I could, and I had finally won a game! I don't think my opponant deserved to lose, as he was doing really well up to the comet hit. But he was saying this was how his weekend had gone, and he picked up the wooden spoon overall too. His army looked fantastic though, and it was a great game.

The last round, and I was climbing up the tables finally. Though I was confident when I saw that my opponant had Warriors, when he went through his list I was less confident. He had gone for the Tzeentch Chosenstar of Doom, with 2 Warshrines and a couple of smaller units - both Khorne. this meant I could lead them a merry dance with my chaff, and they were not really a part of the game. He didn't roll the 12 at the start, and in my first turn I killed a fair few of the Chosen, but not enough as the 12 arrived in his Turn 1.
However, this was the sort of army mine was designed to deal with. I had enough stuff to redirect him all day, and I killed enough of his small units to get a small win.


Overall, I finished 35th out of 42. It was a good weekend, and the format was certainly interesting. 2000 points is a hard level to make lists for now I am used to 2400, but it does mean you can't automatically have all the toys. I will probably go again next year if it runs, and the extras that came with the rules pack were awesome!