8th Edition Tactica - Magic Weapons (2010)

I thought I would start some 8th Ed threads starting with Weapons. I have also used our Big Names to enhance the effectiveness of various weapons builds.

Rating System
**** Excellent
*** Very Good
** Ok
* Rubbish

Note: The Other Tricksters Shard**** can be combined with any of these Weapons to re-roll Ward Saves for opponents in base contact. Probably best combined with high Strength attacks or Obsidian Blade, where the armour saves have been negated.
 

1. Great Weapons.
Advantages high Strength, but will strike last.

Mundane GW.*** This is quite cheap and can be combined with the Beast-killer Big-name to give double wounds on Large Targets (and ItP). Not bad for a cheap expenditure.

Tenderiser*** Enough has been written about this nice weapon in 7th Ed, D3 wounds what more can be said.

Siege breaker*** Still one of my favorites +3 to Strength hitting vs. opponents Initiative good vs all bar Elves, Skaven and other high initiative troops, Stank killer, pretty good vs Knights and heavily armored things.

Thundermace(Tyrant only)** The last and most expensive great weapon, this is for the gamblers if it hits it can do a lot of damage, but odds are it won't hit very often. It is better under 8th due to all partials being hits, maybe useful vs. undead and other low WS troops. Only usable by Tyrants also limits this weapon.


2. Multiple Weapons
Advantages extra attack uses characters Initiative so may not always strike last. Disadvantages can't use a shield with these weapons.

Fencers Blades**** Probably the best of the multiple weapons available to our characters./ Extra attack almost always hitting on 3's can't be all bad. Once again using Giant-breaker Big Name to make the attacks Str 6 therefore easier to wound. Other options to go with this weapon might be Potion of Speed and Potion of Strength.

Mundane
BOH*** was good in 7th due to the shooting ability especially vs. Large Targets. In 8th Ed the -1 for Long range makes this less appealing. Combat wise the extra attack combined with Giant-breaker +1 Strength is nice. So a Tyrant can throw out 6 Str 6 attacks. Also the ability to shoot and its relative cheapness.

Additional Hand Weapons and Iron Fists** very rarely used in 7th Edition Tyrant builds. Maybe on Bruisers on occasions. 8th edition these are unlikely to be used that much due to the abundance of nice Magical weapons.


3. Single Handed Weapons
Advantages can use shields with them.

Mundane
Cathayan Longsword**** A very popular weapon combined with the Greyback Pelt & Glittering Scales, as well as Giant-breaker for extra Strength. +1 WS and extra Initiative is good in 8th Edition & also armour piercing, cheap and being mundane allows more armour load out.

Ogre club ** Free and armour piercing. If you want to save points maybe combine with Giant-breaker or Beast-killer Big names. Also the hand weapon and Shield bonus can be used with this weapon.

Magical
Gold Sigil Sword****An excellent sword and very cheap. Initiative 10 ensures striking first vs. all bar troops with the ASF rule. Add Giant-breaker for the extra Strength attacks.

Sword of Swift Slaying**** Character with this ASF rule extremely handy in 8th Edition. Add Giant-breaker and you have 5 Str 6 Attacks striking first vs. most troops.

Sword of Striking*** +1 to hit, can be combined with giant-breaker for Str 6 attacks wounding more easily as well or potion of strength might also be good with it.                                                                             .

Sword of Anti Heroes*** +1 Attack & +1 Strength for every enemy character in base contact with the unit. This could be very nice combined with Giant-breaker especially vs. Character heavy opponents.

Obsidian Blade*** No armour saves could be good vs. Bretonnians or similar heavily armored armies, however you might be better off with high strength attacks for a cheaper price. Good if combined with The Other Tricksters Shard.

Sword of Bloodshed*** +3 Attacks expensive but quite nice, combined with Giant-breaker could give a Tyrant 8 Str 6 attacks which is nice vs. Low weapon skill opponents.
Sword of Strife*** +2 Attacks, the points saved can give the bearer better armour and ward saves compared to the previous sword. Once again combine with Giant-breaker to boost the strength and therefore damage.
Sword of Battle** +1 Attack, a watered down version of the previous 2 swords.

Bloodcleaver **(Butchers Only) Could be good on a Slaughter Master to help recover wounds. Wasn't used in 7th Edition due to SM's not being used.

Skullplucker** Not used much in 7th Ed so not sure if its any better in 8th Ed.

Giant Blade** +3 Strength, this is overpriced better off with Siege-breaker
Ogre Blade**+2 Strength more expensive than a mundane GW but can use a Shield with it and not always striking last.
Sword of Might** +1 Strength, popular in 7th Ed on BSB's but we didn't have the nice range of Magical Weapons to pick from that we now have.

Berserker Sword** giving Frenzy +1 Attack and ItP but character will have to charge nearest unit.

Warrior Bane** Monster or character receiving unsaved wounds from this sword loses 1 attack per wound. Add Giant-breaker to increase your chances of wounding (Str6). This sword may be ok vs Monsters with lots of wounds, where a prolonged combat is likely.

Relic Sword** There is one good use for it vs. Steam Tanks and other high Toughness Monsters. Otherwise this one should remain on the mantelpiece, like all good relics. Might be useful on a Hunter/Bruiser in a Monster/Stank killing role.

Tormentor Sword* Cheapest Magical attack you are likely to get. If you wound an opposing character he becomes Stupid .

Biting Blade* Waste of points we already have a free Ogre Club with the same effect.

Spell-thieving Sword* I prefer to kill Wizards not drain their Magic levels away, points are better spent on other swords.

Shrieking Blade* This can go shriek in a different army, no good for Ogres.

Honestly, I think the weapon to choose depends on what you're buying it for.

-Thundermace can only go on Tyrants.  I've gotta be honest and say I'm not a huge fan.  When it hits, holy cow, it hits, but something with a 33% chance of failure just doesn't cut it in my books.  Still, I know the internet majority is fully in favor of this item because of the massive damage it can do when successful.

-Tenderizer is still my choice for a Tyrant.  It allows him to be a threat to any other character/monster/what-have-you.  Sure, it's no more than a normal great weapon against most units, but hey, does your Tyrant need more than a normal Great Weapon against normal infantry?

-Siegebreaker is one of those weapons that I'd just as soon throw on a Slaughtermaster as anything else.  The chance to strike against initiative means that sometimes he'll hit on a 3+, and S7 is just plain nice.  On a Bruiser or Tyrant, I'd rather go with a generic GW.

-Duelist's Blades are nice if you're going for the unkillable Tyrant build.  I've found that a T6+ Tyrant (you are taking Mawseeker, right?) is more than capable of holding his own, and I'd rather have a massive strength as opposed to an extra attack.

-Blade of +3 attacks could be useful, but it's more expensive than any of the normal Ogre Weapons and S5 doesn't impress me much.  8 S5 attacks can do a lot of damage, though.

-Blade of +3 strength just doesn't do it for me, at all.  That gets to the point where I'm just saying "Buy a GW already."

Likewise, most of the common magic weapons just don't do much for me.  I'd rather have a GW or Cathayan Longsword on a Bruiser as opposed to an Ogre Blade or whatnot.

...although, I have to be snarky and say that the rules specifically state that an Ogre Blade could well be an Ogre Axe.  If it's an Ogre Club, does it get armor piercing? 

Gold Sigil Sword + Giantbreaker
Initiative 10 Str6 attacks

I love this since it is soo cheap to put on anything, you are faster than anything without ASF, and ASF/High Initiative characters never get their ASF reroll combo against you. Throw in some sword gnoblars and you get 7 attacks at I10. Five of which compare to most "regular" armies great weapons.

Okies I have finished the weapon options with attached ratings.

Obviously you can tailor your characters if you know your opponents.

In all comers lists there may be certain builds which are optimal.

Suggestions for other good combos welcome.

IMO your review of the "weapons" is not very objective.

I think you should do this without mentioning giant breaker as it can be added to any character (plus it requires you to add a giant to your army). 

Perhaps under your 4star weapons list an example build using the weapon. 

Also what basis are you using for determining somethings value?  the big T is great for killing multiwound modles obviously however the +3 attack sword would be much better for clearning out blocks of infantry.  And then the sword of anti heroes (easily the most conditionally useful/useless magic weapon you listed) is rated as valueable as Fencers blade whcih will always give +1 attack and WS10.

Not once did you mention a compairson of cost to reward or comparible cheaper loadouts.

Your right Sitaavanu I did get carried away with Sword of Anti Heroes as it is situational, so reduced it to 3 Stars.

The ratings are overall vs. all comers. Tailoring is ok for friendlies but not so good for Tournies where you need all comers lists and builds.

I have put Big-name enhancements with the Weapons that get boosted by this as I felt that these weapons are more useful enhanced by the Big Name. As you mentioned the Giant-breaker does require a Giant in the Army which could be looked upon as a drawback with these weapon combos.

People are welcome to recommend others.

I didn't compare points costs due to copy right when publishing exact costs, but this was factored in to the rating scheme.

I am sure I have missed some good Weapon combos as the 8th Ed book is still being explored.

In defence of the Sword of Anti-Heroes, I think it's conditional quality is mitigated somewhat in the hands of a Tyrant, that even when he's getting no bonus from it, he's still a Tyrant fighting non-character stuff, that's still naughty in it's own right.

It looks like you left off the Sword of Striking.  I am actually using on a couple of SM builds just to get a cheap magical weapon (stupid vampires) with some benefit.  I have been comparing it versus the sword of battle (or our Ironfist or BoH) and cannot find a situation where the Sword of Striking would not be just as good or more beneficial in most cases.

Thanks I will add Sword of Striking I don't know how I forgot it.

A couple things need to be pointed out about your choices.

Siegebreaker - There is some debate right now as to if the updated Steam Tank has Init or not. Since it is now a Chariot and it's rider has Init it seems it would use it's crew's Init for attacks like this and thus not have the 1d6 wounds any longer. This would drop the value of the Siegebreaker.


ASF/Init 10 - Striking first being a huge advantage is situation. It works well in challenges or when the unit you are attacking has a low model count. Otherwise the casualty rules mean you will still get attacked. "The best defense is a good offense" is not as true as it used to be.

Giant Blade - This is not overpriced. As mentioned it is a 1 handed weapon. This means you can take one of the new magical shields and it doesn't have the ASL rule attached to it like Siegebreaker.


Basically you are looking at some of the weapons in a vacuum and some with combos. How potent a weapon is going to be on a character is related to several other factors you are choosing to ignore. A Weapon that allows the Character to take items to make them much more durable and survivable might result in more wounds over time than a weapon that lets the character strike first, wipe out the front row, and then be killed by return attacks.

Thundermace - Yes, it is a 33% chance you might miss but the majority of the time you are going to be rolling to wound as many as 19 models.

Over three combat rounds even with missing 1 round you are talking an average of 25 wounds on To3 20x20mm troops(which you will likely be seeing a lot of). Match that with any other weapon combo and then also realize Ogres have many other options to throw out high Str attacks so the Tyrant doesn't have to carry them.

Mercules - On the subject of Steam Tanks, the rule where it is hit automatically in HTH remains. As to what bearing this has on I tests remains to be discussed, as I do not have the Empire Army Book to hand.

Siegebreaker states that units without an Init are hit Automatically and take d6 wounds. Since the Steam Tank now has an Init(from it's crew) it no longer takes the d6 wounds.

Aye I'd agree with that.

And this basically means there is little to nothing the siegebreak auto hits anymore, making it a +3 str magic GW.

well, aside from possibly castle walls, yeah, the siege breaker doesn't hit anything.

Sorry haven't been on the forum for a while.

Ye it looks like Siegebreaker isn't what it used to be.

As far as combos are concerned I am sure there are many good ones I haven't mentioned as yet.