Archive - Ogre Kingdoms vs. Warriors of Chaos

The new book:
- chaos knights cause fear now.
- mark of slaanesh now isn't immune to psychology anymore, just immune to fear, terror and panic.
  The main thing here is that units may flee and still don't care about your fear causing guts.
- marks can be given to about everythin now, especially the marauders and marauder horsemen.
  This might make them the most reliable fast cavalry in the game
- marks are actually extra upgrades to characters and units, there is no limitation on marks except a khorne model may not be a sorcerer. It is possible to have a khorne lord in a unit with the mark of nurgle.

There seem to be 4 main armies as I see them in warriors of chaos:
1 all magic, with blocks of slaanesh and wizards of tzeentch ( they are not big fighters with magic capabilities anymore)
2 all mounted with little magic, but fast and probably alot of khorne.
3 big blocks moving forward in a big all crushing roller
4 combination of fast and slow, but that's the easy one for ogres: first kill the fast, then the slow.

Alrighty I think its Mark of Nurgle our Ogres will get -1 WS hitting the Warriors on 5's !!! ouch

So our hard hitting IG's won't get many wounds.

However our impact hits will be crucial to try and inflict a few extra wounds at least giving us a chance on the 1st round of combat. Front & Flank charges are essential if we are to stand any chance here.

Magic missiles and Panic may help the Brahmir Statue has finally found a use!

Rune Maw Banner also very handy for the nasty spell that swallowed Tyrion the other Day.

Other than that Man eaters rather than Gorgers due to them being WS 4.

Slavegaint & Scrappies could be useful.

Tenderiser & Siegebreaker for smacking down the chaos chariots.

Well Bob, I'll go by your points:

impact hits:
on knights: half of the hits do wounds and 1 out of 6 passes the armour save.
that's 1 in 12 impact hits do a wound.

magic missiles, panic and brahmir statue.
I do think that with all daemon and mortal armies you are going to see the statue will have its use.
Though magic resistance and immune to panic is still within the army.

agree on the rune maw banner.

Why is Ws4 better, when you still hit everything on 4's (or 5's when nurgle)?

Slave giant? a treemen couldn't even stand 2 rounds of combat against my knights.
scrappy? every hero can have S7 and with the warschrine even knights with lances (no sain mind will use them) can have S7

Tenderizer is always a good weapon, though chaos has a gift or armour that counters the D3 wounds.
For the chariots I'd use the maneaters again, to give them more functions.

Ye well I was trying to find something we had to use vs. these new books.

Remember some of our impact hits can be strength 5 which increases the odds slightly.

WS4 will hit on 4's instead of 5's definitely  better.

Our gut magic Strength spell could be really good here.

The new warriors of chaos book is beefcake but it still can be answered with ogre bread and butter.

Ironguts and Maneaters - school armour and their expensive chaos warriors wont be able to deal with the volume of ogre attacks. Maneaters with great weapons are obscene at pasting armour.

Chaos characters - are terrifying and should be avoided. Also they must always issue challenges so they are made for merking characters. Alone they should be avoided but if they are in a unit I would suggest pounding the unit and making them run.

Magic - If they are magic heavy nip that junk in the bud. Charge in and direct attacks then let the pieces fall. Chaos mages are after all just armoured mages.

Chaos Knights - cause fear and bring the thunder. Use naked bulls to bait the charge,then counter charge. Chaos knights start at 40 points so any loss is a big one. Also bonecruncher does the trick but I try not to rely on magic.

In closing warriors of chaos are rough with the new book but still beatable. They are very expensive so use great weapons and psychology to your advantage. Kill their front ranks and watch them run when they are outnumbered. Good luck.

They fact that they have to accept a challenge will work to our advantage. The games I've played against them saw their heroes being subsequently dumped in a bucket. So much so that now people are keeping their combat lords and heroes away from any big smelly nasty ogre.

My friend plays a Nurgle Chaos Sorcerer Lord with the Chaos Daemonsword (+d3S +d6A) and his BSB has the Helm of Many Eyes + Collar of Khorne (Tzeentch), so he has 4 S7 ASF attacks at WS7 and MR2/5+ ward.

I can deal with those 2 things with my orcs and gobs, but for ogres, I'm not entirely sure how to engage those monstrosities.

Same thing with pimped out Chosen Warriors, he has a Warshrine near them so on top of the starting Eye of the Gods roll, he stacks another Gift, from the Warshrine, and his champion modifies his roll by +1 or -1 if he wants to..

Last time I had to face Stubborn 4+ ward chosens, though he did, on the last turn, change it to +1T, so T5 2+ armor ~_~ At least Bonecruncher could take some out before they reach me.

Ugh!

Braingobbler is next to useless against the entire army and he doesnt play Chaos Knights anymore, he decided to go with Chaos Ogres, so Bonecruncher doesn't have many targets.


It seems that against Warriors of Chaos, Ogres must delay reaching combat while thinning out the insane stuff with butchers and whatever shooting we have at the time. Its bad, when Ogres cannot just charge into combat and must instead wait it out in the back, like cowards :[

No, no, no. Wrong filosify. This is called 'ordering in', not waiting like cowards.

Silver that situation sounds super shitty. All I could think of to do to deal with the chosen would be to limit their effectiveness. Maybe feed some naked bulls to them for a round or two and have your big units fight other things. Toothcrack something and just try to bog them down in a combat that will be drawn out. Please take all this with a grain of salt because it is all theoryham.I don't have a chaos player I play regularily.

Do you know if the chosen lose their added gifts if the Alter is destroyed?

Those alters are solid. It would be pretty hard to crack one, minus the standardizer.

As for chosen, if you can get that flank, you're golden. I would say don't engage elsewise. The save on those buggers is horrible, and their statline is astronomical. They really are hell on wheels. However, if he's taking a big block of them, that's a GIGANTIC point sink, and you can pick off the rest of his army until you can get in a flank charge or something. Maybe a gorger will hold up in the rear for a turn or two. Then you surround the block and it's game over for that chaos player, ward save or not.

If he's taking small blocks, you shouldn't have much to worry about as you should still kill about a guy per irongut before saves. That should limit his attacks back, especially if you've got a big beefy character with you as well. Then you'll out CR him and hopefully they'll break for the hills. If their stubborn though... Well, let's just say you might want to blow a few holes in them or keep some backup around in case you have to add another charge in.

Those Chaos Warriors are tough, but we're tougher. Keep at it, and good luck mate.

i dont think anyone's mentioned how to deal with nurgle knights, these guys are insane , 1+ armor save plus -1 s and t if your in base contact, i got a flank charge with my tenderizer tyrant, and bounced off like rubber.  they are compareable to daemon plaugebearers, imo, do not engage in combat with these things.

Yeah, but with a flank charge, these guys aren't so grand after all. You can limit the number of attacks they are getting on you, whilst hitting them hard. If you make sure you take that first knight down, it should be easy sailing from then on in

JJ

how does siegebreaker fair against warriors/marauders/etc.?
wyhat's the standard I like?
I'm fighting a chaos guy this week, he's a friend of mine, and doesn't use cheesy lists, so it should be okay
he only uses one mage, so I'mnot sure whether to go butcherless or not...

boncruncher works well against those hig-armour knights - it might be worth taking a single butcher along...

would two work, saying as there's only one mage to worry about?
how would braingobbler fair? even with the Will Of Chaos rule, a Brahmir Statue and a Skullmantle would mean 5's(I think?) even with a re-roll, that's pretty low

building a list with brahmir statue and the skullmantle is rather nasty - and yes, goign this way with 2 butchers would work as long as you remembered to stick them all in the same unit.

However, as you know I tend frown on tailoring lists for specific foes - but hey-ho, go own him!

well, me too
but, I thought I may as well give it a try. I mean, the way I see it, I've got a hard enough time against these damn 7th edition books

in fact, how would DKS fair in this combo,
a unit of maneaters, with two butcher - skulll mantle, brahmir statue - and a terror causing tyrant with whatever weapos
terror tests at -4 (plus braingobbler) even with a re-reoll, odds are against them

unless they are Frenzied, Mark of Slaanesh, ITP or already cause Terror (Warshrine), then it may work.  but then there's always Rapturous Standard which means the odds are ALWAYS in his favor.

Well, he has no warshrine, and he dooesnt ever use MoS as he doesn't like slanneshi themes

if he uses nurgle knights, then statue and and skullmantle are definetly a good counter as thats the only way to deal with them imo, but then you have to get lucky and get the spell off, but if he's only taking one mage like you mentioned then sounds like he's not that competetive in the first place and chances are he wont have nurgle knights ethier.

Well, I think he only owns one mage as of yet
But I'm not sure how competetive he'll go, he's knows I'm ogres and it's a friendly match so he might not got TOO bad

I am finding the WoC very hard to play against.

The players I have played against have gone cavalry heavy with Shaggoths or dragon Ogres and special characters.

Mages on chariots all add up to a world of hurt for Ogres when they use Mark of Nurgle to ensure we hit on 5's and -1 to shooting.

The biggest issue I have is the nasty WoC Spells

Infernal Gateway and
Quagmire rip our army to shreds

I lost a Rhinox unit with the Rune Maw Banner to an Infernal Gateway
& Lost my Tyrant to the Quagmire spell

Using 0 butcher lists makes it a risky venture facing WoC even with 2 Thiefstones in a unit.

So unfortunately I am going back to a Butcher Scroll caddy & 2 thief stones on my Tyrant.

Tyrant, GW, BoH, Mawseeker, Wyrdstone, 2 Thiefstones, Greyback Pelt, Luck Gnoblar, 2 sword gnoblars.

Tyrant, GW, BoH, Mawseeker, Wyrdstone, 2 Thiefstones, Greyback Pelt, Luck Gnoblar, 2 sword gnoblars.

cant have wyrdstone necklace and thiefstones, on the same guy i thought.
Anyways, yea the guy who plays woc with me at our local club all i lose to all the time, he runs 3 units of nurgle knights, and 3 units of marauder horsemen 2 spwans and a warshrine.  He uses 3 mages one is his general, and sticks one in each unit of knights, these guys are impossible, the logical answer would be to flank them, but they have better movement, and hit like a ton of bricks, even if you get extremely lucky and force a panic check somehow they get to re-roll it, defintely a huge problem for a ws 3 ogre army.  Any ideas with dealing with them, would be great.

Against Heavy Nurgle Slavegiants and Scraplaunchers are your friends. Neither of those have to deal with the -1 to hit nonsense and can really ruin a WoC player's day. A kitted out Tyrant with some Maneaters should be able to stand up to a unit of Nurgle Knights fairly well.

My biggest complaint against playing WoC is the silly dance in the middle of the board while each side tries to get the charge. Damn MoS Marauders and Horsemen .... grumble.

My friend ussually uses a list like this:

Pimped lord on Juggernaut (dont know his kit but he has a -1 armor save )

Hero on steed of slaanesh

2x 5 knights

2x 5 marauder horsemen

he outmaneuvers me in any possible way...

Well...I'm a long time Warriors of Chaos player and I started playing Ogres a couple of years ago.

Last week I played my Ogres against my Chaos army (2500 points) and for the first time, the Ogres won (Solid Victory, 900 vp).

I found that Maneaters with a Cathayan Longsword and a Brace of Handguns can make quick work of those Knights (of any mark).

I rarely use Gnoblars, I always use 2 butchers (one in a unit of 7 bulls) and one that wanders behind my units. My bruiser and my Tyrant are always in a unit of Ironguts for that extra punch.
I also include at least one unit of 3-4 leadbelchers. I tried Gorgers a couple of times, but I found they usually come in too late in the game (the times they did come in they single-handedly killed a khorne champ on a juggernaut.. )

I think the main thing to worry about is frenzied chaos warriors/leaders. I would use gnoblar trappers to bait them into a vulnerable position then charge. Also gateway can be devastating, so thats something to look out for. A good bull charge with ironguts and a bruiser can soften up most units, whilst scraplauncers, leadbelchers or maneaters w/ brace of handguns take care of those pesky manouverable knights and marauder horsemen. Warriors have no range (with the exeption of magic which you can pin down, and hellcannons that are more likely to end up in combat) so exploit this. Finally, their exalteds and lords are VERY strong. There is a chance that you'll loose a challenge, so I would only ever send leaders designed for character killing against them.

Hope I've helped,
GnoblarGobbler

Well one of my best friends plays Ogres and I play Warriors and from experience the main things that I fear when playing him are Ironguts with a Tyrant in (in other words ouch) and gut magic. Give boosts to all you units.

Very true. Buffs are vital to stand a chance against Warriors. Even with Bullgorger, Bulls simply can't get through that armour and static res. For me, Toothcracker is particularly handy to make sure they hold up against blocks long enough for the aforementioned 'Guts and Tyrant/Bruiser to do their work.

I also happen to have a friend, and from experience one of the main things that I fear when playing him is that blasted glaive of putrefaction.... sound familiar ChaosD?...

Hmmm..Eg-Giant tripper.....By the gods...tis you!
All i can say rich is....LIZARDMEN, LIZARDMEN,LIZARDMEN

Does anyone have experience with fighting Chosen?
My warrior-playing friend is using them against me in our next battle and says they are unbelievably hard.
I knew they were strong, but I didn't think they were that good (or bad) - plus he has given them that frenzied banner thing.

Thanks(:

I've played on a board with chosen on it - but not fought chosen

the unit has M4 - with a little march blocking, and if he's nice enough to make them frenzied - diverting, you too can join the club of being able to ignore the chosen too and killing the rest of his army

One doesn't see chozen in that many armies. Whilst they are hard, theyare also very expensive, and the prevailing wisdom around chaos generals is that Knights are better value for the slot. I think Wildcard's, suggestion is a good one. Avoid them. And if you want to be really cruel about it, end every turn in which they aren't in combat with the words...

"oooh, those chozen are hard."

Yeah, he's using two units of 15 - one with frenzied.
So I may feed the frenzied unit gnoblars and flank charge him with something.
As for the other unit, would a Maneater Death star be able to hack into them enough? (probably with a flank charge)

Oh, and he's using a unit of 5 knights 

a maneater deathstar with the proper number of characters (tyrant and 2 bruisers, 3-4 maneaters with a mix of guns and great weapons) will do fine.  but still, I'd advise avoiding them and crushing everything else first.

Chosen are fine if they don't have great weapons, my last game i smashed 2 units of 12 (1 with +1 toughness and 1 with +1 armour) with my deathstar unit.  They were clogged up behind hounds and could not get out of the way .
I do tend to underestimate warriors/chosen though and have come unstuck in the past.

Anyone played Kholek yet?  I will have the pleasure of taking him on in a 2999pt game in a couple of weeks and he looks badass. tempted to try and ignore him but he apparently has a strong shooting attack (anyone know how it works?) and is fast.  He has a non-greatweapon 'tenderiser' and strenght 8 , don't think even the tyrant would stand a chance.

Don't really want to hit him with the deatstar (tyrant and 3 bruisers inc BSB) as he will probabally kill a couple of character before going down (i would decline challenges and hit him with multiple characters), he might even beat my 1000pt unit...

What to do .

Kholek is incredibly tough. I can think of one way to possibly take him down - take a tank Tyrant (beastkiller, wyrdstone necklace, greedy fist, greyback pelt etc.) and take his charge on the chin with the deathstar, with trollguts of course. Challenge him and the Tyrant will hopefully survive with a few wounds remaining and cause a few wounds back with a double-wound causing great weapon. If they inflict an equal amount of wounds on each other, the static combat res. the rest of the unit generates might help see him off - it might be worth taking the warbanner for the +1 combat res.

Heh, Kholek only has T6. I played with him against an Ogre Kingdom army and I lost Kholek in a Challenge against his Tyrant (which had the Tenderizer).

Due to crappy dicerolls I managed to do 4 wounds on the Tyrant and he did 3 to Kholek.
In the next round the Tyrant was first to strike (Initiative 4 compared to Initiative 1 of Kholek) and did 7 wounds (Tenderizer multiplies wounds to D3 wounds).

5 Knights (of any Mark) almost always lose to a unit of Ironguts with Trollguts on it.

And you can rip through a unit of 10 Chosen with 4 Leadbelchers relatively easy.

Hate to tell you this Chaos, but the Tenderiser is a great weapon, meaning it always strikes last. Kholek should have eaten him for breakfast.

Tis true Kholek strikes first, and like you said, kholek had crappy dice rolls...

We are using our tourniment lists so my tyrant will have tenderiser, greedyfist, wyrdstone necklace+luck gnobbo and handguns.  Not a bad setup to take on kholek (mainly due to tenderiser and greedyfist+ward stealing starcrushers D3 wounds ability) but don't like it.

Just found he can go frenzied, this would help hugely.

Otherwise ther is little i can see to stop him interfering and stopping me getting the deathstar to the targets i really want to hit.  He's to fast and manouverable.

Don't think i'll bother shooting chosen with my leadbealchers (my only shooting other than 5 braces and the gnoblars) when they could be reliably killing fastcav etc.
How i see it 4 leadbelchers will let fly with 20ish shots (if none missfire), so 10 hits, 5 wounds and maybe 3 dead if no extra armour/toughness etc.  Can't see them close to ripping through chosen.

Its a difficult situations. I mean Kholek is hard as Heck and he is quicker than almost any thing in the game bar a flyer for his size. He can also shoot better than a bolt thrower..soo......well just think about this, you can take a Tyrant that can take him on for a good 300pts less. Then also think at how large the chunk of his army that he spends on characters will be!

Shoots better than a boltthrower?   How dose the shot work?

If the tyrant gets the charge he can hurt Kholek but like you said, he's fast and manouverable.  I doubt the tyrant can stand more than 2 rounds of combat, so he'll fight once basically. 

What i'm thinking about is keeping my 2 units of gnoblar fighters on ethier side of the tyrant's deathstar, if Kholek comes in i challenge with he tyrant and hopefully steal the starcrushers D3 wound ability befor dieing.  And hopefully dieing in second round to get the ranks of the gnoblars in to beat him.  Perhaps challenge with groinbiter .

Lots of hopeing...

I beleive it's D6 S5 hits on any unit - arguably nastier than a bolt thrower, but only slightly.

You don't really need that much luck for the Tyrant to stand a chance, but the odds are much better if he has Trollguts. Let's do the maths.

Kholek - 7 attacks hitting on 4s due to the Greyback Pelt - 4 hits.
Wounding on 2s - 3 wounds.
Wyrdstone Necklace - 1 saved.
Trollguts - 1 saved.
That 1 wound translates into D3 wounds - 2 wounds caused. The Tyrant can quite easily do that back with a great weapon and Beastkiller.

Also bear in mind that because of the Greedy Fist, he has to roll all of his attacks individually, one at a time. The instant you pass any kind of save, his weapon is negated, even for his remaining attacks that round. So those two wounds he inflicted could quite feasibly just be 1.

True but i'm stuck with army (and tyrant) for weekend tourniment so no greyback or trollguts (or magic). Would have been handy.

So its down to the gnoblars......

I'm doomed...........

When you say he has to roll attacks one at a time, is that in the FAQ?  Or a standard rule?

Wasn't it a FAQ? I know I have heard/read it somewhere, but can't think where. Yeah, like Eg said, it is feasible that on averages Kholek could only score the one wound, but as we all know, how often dice become better than average for our opponent, when we want them to be average at best... I like your idea of the gnoblars, and it is one thing kholek really does lack; static CR.

JJ

hmmm, the math that Egg, gives is good I think, when he told me in person, it sounded convincing anyway lol, but anyway....I think you may be able to take it on.

Scraplaunchers are really good against Chaos Warriors and Knights. Killing Blow cuts right through their Armor Save, and no more partials means you're hitting a lot more of them now.

After that, Ironguts aren't bad either considering you'll be going last most times anyway. They just have to live long enough to swing, which the Bulls are a little better at as they can get a Parry Save.

sit back and blast with leadbelchers and scraplaunchers as the chaos armies are the only ones where we have better shooting then, combat with basic chaos warriors is okay once your not outnumbered more than three to one as their only wounding u on fours or your attacking first or at the  sane time even with hitting u on threes and ounding you on ofurs their wounding roughly i in three/four attacks and bulls have a parry save and ironguts have hevay armour

watch out for the death spell -3 ld plus a shot from the hell cannon. ld7  bullsat -4 is not fun... i lost 15+tyrant+Sm +bsb bulls first turn that way. ld9 tyrant = ld 5 with reroll... 

hell cannons are easily countered by big block scouting trappers; don't assault, just sharp stuff the hell out of it and it will either have to attack you or redirect something to attack them... with the potential of wounding on 6's now, just sitting 4 or less away and double tapping will be enough to make the player panic enough to do something.  and if he charges the trappers, they'll have so many attacks vs the hell cannon and crew's so few attacks you may actually stay in combat long enough to occupy it for 2 turns with none of they're only shooting available.

Leadbelchers!!!! They are very very efective against them, shoot-flee-reload-shoot....Very deadly and most importantly they ruin enemy's plan and movement.

Unfortunately I experienced below average performance from scraplaunchers.

Well I agree with what has been said so far Scraplaunchers probably one of the best units we can field vs WoC.


Characters
Also important is character Load out.

WoC have to challenge so we may be able to take advantage of this fact.

Weapons that improve our initiative &/or WS are likely to be useful vs. high Initiative & WS WoC troops.

most devastating thing in WoC is a Chosen of Tzeentch combo with two Warshrines and terror banner.
They probabaly got 3+ ward save , terror, s5, t4 ...

And also ASF giant is terrible too!!!

The ASF giant may be dealt with with the ASF Sword in the new Magic items, then character & Giant would strike simultaneously at least.

or charge it with 2 Scrap launchers might make a dent?

Leadbelchers are pretty good, they wound on 4+ almost everything and have -2 armour save modifiers, which means we can drop some Warriors with them. Before that it's best to shoot with Scraplauncher to maximise the amount of models under the template.

Here's one funny tip. Take a Slaughtermaster with Brahmir Statue into a unit of Leadbelchers. First shoot one unit (perhaps Warriors?) with everything you have, finally shoot with your Leadbelchers with your Slaughtermaster. The shooted unit is possibly going to take a panic check. With -3 Ld modifiers.  This works with Braingobbler spell too. Warriors have pretty small Ld at the end, so even re-rollable Ld 5 checks are pain, especially when it has to be taken twice a turn. 

- Cheers, Skarsnik. 

Did someone faced the Mother of Blades (french trad, the sword who actually reverb your hits to you). It really was a pain in the a##... Is shooting/magic the only way ? Is there WoC players here who know a drawback to this item ?

Did someone faced the Mother of Blades (french trad, the sword who actually reverb your hits to you). It really was a pain in the a##... Is shooting/magic the only way ? Is there WoC players here who know a drawback to this item ?

The Drawback to that sword (in the english book, it's the father of blades, same difference) is that it cost a lot of points, uses the heros magic weapon allocation and it doesn't actually make him any killy-er. Against a Goblins, Skaven, or Gnoblars, it's pretty useless.

I'll have to position my Gnoblars carefully next time, with a Groinbiter !! Thanks for the info.

I'd imagine a Bruiser/ Tyrant with the Beast Killer Big Name & a Great Weapon would be good against a lot of the nastier Chaos threats. Hitting a Giant on 3's, wounding on 2's and doubling wounds can't be all bad.

I must admit apart from my Deathstar my troops are struggling to win combats vs. the Warrior foot blocks.

They either have Mark of Nurgle or Khorne and my Bulls seem to lose even if I get the charge off.

Not played yet but my skaven friend has just switched to WoC and watched him play other pal's Orcs and Goblins.

Tzeentch warriors with 3+ armour save and 5+ ward save, Khorne warriors with 4 attacks..all seems very nasty and cheap for the points. Not seen the book in detail but think he mentioned basic warrior is only 15 points..sheesh.

So seems with so many ward saves around Other tricksters shard seems to be a requirement.

K

If you have the chance to get Bullgorgers it helps alot. Last time I steamrolled a unit of Knights with my S9 Deathstar

15 Iron Guts with Full command, runemaw (oh so necessary vs WoC) with butcher, defensive bsb and ninja tyrant can comfortably take on blocks of warriors-and should come up on top even if combo charged by 2 blocks to the front.

Units of bullrhinox FTW. Get a charge off @ at at least 7inches for 3d3 s6 impact hits, wear the attacks back with your t5 and 2+ as (And if lucky also regen), then smash them down hard (+ round here we play they have thunderstomp cos they large target monsters). A unit of 3 should be able to take a unit of warriors on easily.

Regen spell, as usual, very useful.

I agree on the other trickster's shard. charge the tzeentch warriors and have fun.

Surprised no one has mentioned Brahmir statue combined with Skull Mantle and Brain Gobbler.  You need two characters in the same unit to pull it off.  One with the statue and a Butcher with Skull Mantle casting Brain Gobbler.  End result is him trying to make a leadership check at -4.  Last battle I played, I made my opponent’s main unit (with general) run off the board by T3.  Good for laughs is nothing else. Of course the rest of his army was all frenzied and immune to that little trick, but it still worked a treat on the one unit.   I also haven’t heard anyone mention a Giant, but it was also kind of funny to watch mine jump up and down on a unit of Chaos Knights and then follow up with thunder stomp.   The Knights did a couple of wounds to the Giant and then just got flattened.  It helps that he charged.
   
I agree on Scraplaunchers.  It’s good against the Warriors, but awesome vs. Marauders.  I took out half a unit of 30 in one shot.    Of course you have to hit, and the unit in question had zero armor which helped. 

I did some number crunching on Ogres vs Warriors.  It’s pretty even as far as I can tell and favors the Warriors in the long run.  Softening them up with the Scraplauncher makes a lot of sense.  Critical to the success I had was including multiple characters (Tyrant, Bruiser BSB, Butcher) in the unit that hit them.  The characters, suitably equipped, add the needed extra punch.   In addition, because some of his rank and file are likely only in base to base with one of the characters who is tougher, has better armor, better weapons skills, etc. you potentially save some wounds on your rank and file.

yeah brahmin statue and skull mantel is good combo BUT unfortuntaly brahmin statue doesn't work for break tests! At least till a FAQ change. It says 'Psychology tests' in previous editions 'psychology tests' means fear, terror,panic tests. Also there are arguments about meaning of 'chaos' in this; I mean does 'Chaos' means Warriors of Chaos, Deamons of Chaos AND Beastmen or just first two.

So a clear FAQ needed

Second still -4 Ld check combo works good. Nowadays WoC players field aprox. 30 models strong marauder with greatweapon units. You can combine these two items along with a 'terror' causing item AND cause panic among their ranks!!! Even with reroll from Will of Chaos successing panic check with Ld3 is difficult and REDICTING charge to another marauder AND panicing them is really terrifying too UNLESS they are Khorne marauders which they prefer to wield against us because of 'Frenzy' rule!

As you can see we are (at least me ) is aware of this combo but this combo is anti-WoC combo and designed only to destroy WoC or Skaven armies and in specific conditions so use it wisely

My buddy beat down my characters with a nasty weapon - when it inflicts an unsaved wound, the hero is redused to strength 2 toughness 2. Basically castrates a tyrant!!! it hurt. 

Glaive of Putrefaction... that's a heck of a sword there, although if you're not facing ogres, it's not greatly useful, but then again, the price is right for the weapon, but from what I've seen, there are some other really good weapons for Warriors of Chaos at that points level.  Nurgle, Nurgle, Nurgle.

Okies I have played WoC quite a few times now under 7th and 8th Ed rules.

Designing a Tourney army based on what would do well vs WoC isn't too bad either.

Essentials
Scroll for those 6 dice Infernal Gateways

Scrap-launchers x2 to soften up the big infantry Tin Can blocks. Chosen in particular may be a good Target.
Rhinox Cavalry (if allowed)

Useful things
Gnoblar throw away blocks to distract and tie up their elites

Another Tricksters Shard could be good vs. Ward saves

Gut Magic vs. Knights (Str 2 Magic Missile no armour saves).

Buff up the Bulls & IG's before even considering combat

Let the WoC come to you and deploy back from the center line using Terrain to advantage.

thought i might comment i play WoC and i reguraly beat down the ogre player at my club just a few tips if you wanna take WoC out
1. dont aim leadies at marauders however big they seem their shocking in close combat plus low armour makes them easy to kill aim leadies at the warriors even a 10 squad with hand weapon and sheild can take out 4 ironguts/ 6 bulls with ease
2. DISSPELL TREASON OF TZEENTCH!!!! it will severly hurt the squad leaving the warriors (or even maurders) to mop up might want to think about pademoium as well seeing as the ogres are low leadership (i think not sure)
3.dont go for a fight which it seems you can win but you most probally wont win (like i said 10 man squad will take out a bull squad in a turn or 2)
4.knights are 'ard!!!! either shoot the hell out of them or hold them up with gnoblars you dont want being flank charged by them
thats it for fighting WoC tactics use them to beat down the next WoC player you play

One note that will come into play alot with WoC, If the unit is frenzied they do not get parry save.

What ?? Where's it said ?

p70 MRB (Big Red Book) under frenzy section.

"In addition Frenzied Models cannot parry."

Thanks a lot !

What a nice forum . I never thought that i can find this type war information. Now Playing the game is very easy for me. Thanks buddy

Hi guys, been lurking here a while although i've been playing ogres for 2 years plus. Gonna play a 4k game soon with a WoC player. Planned to run some stuff against him:

Tyrant (Armor of Destiny, Siegebreaker, The Other Trickster Shard)
Slaughtermaster (Halfling cookbook, Bloodcleaver)
Bruiser (Banner of Eternal Flame, heavy armor, cathayan longsword)
Block of Ironguts with Wailing Banner and full command
Blocks of Bulls with ironfist and full command

Giant (1 or 2 to handle the Hellcannon and misc stuff)
Scrappie (1 or 2 against blocks of marauders / warriors)

Any comments / suggestions?

I played against a WoC army today at 2K points and had a very hard time taking them on.

Khorne Lords on Juggernauts are just plain f-ing crazy! he had something like a -1up save & 5+ ward, and made me re-roll all my successful to hit rolls against him. GAH! Even when I landed a couple Tenderiser hits he still had enough for a 5+ armour & ward save which negated everything (lucky rolling I know, but still).

There was also a banner which gave everey one of my units in line of sight -1 Ld; combined with Pandemonium (I couldn't use my general's Inspiring Presence) this was a massive pain in the arse.

The worst though were the Chaos knights, who even after I flank charged them (& the Khorne JuggerLord) with 6 naked bulls + Tyrant they actually won combat   O_O

Perhaps I just rolled badly, and he didn't, that happens, but there were soo many individual nasty spells, weapons, effects, abilities, special rules etc that I just got lost in it all and had to ask to see every new trick in my opponents army book because it felt like he was making half of it up! How the hell can we defend ourselves properly from Infernal Gateway?!? That spell is a monster.

When I play against my brother (who has WoC), he has a Exalted Hero whith a 1+ armoursave, AND a dawnstone, that lets him reroll his armoursave! I can't kill it !
How should I do to beat it???

If he has "just" a 1+ armorsave :

1 is always a failure,
Killing blow will pass through it

You can go Scraplauncher on him and/or put Killing Blow on you Heroes. Even if he has a ward save, it'll negate the 1+ armor save.

When I play against my brother (who has WoC), he has a Exalted Hero whith a 1+ armoursave, AND a dawnstone, that lets him reroll his armoursave! I can't kill it !
How should I do to beat it???

Thundermace? In a challenge(he HAS to accept) you can make 1 swing. If it hits it is S8 does 1d6 wounds and doesn't allow an armour save.

If he has "just" a 1+ armorsave :

1 is always a failure,
Killing blow will pass through it

You can go Scraplauncher on him and/or put Killing Blow on you Heroes. Even if he has a ward save, it'll negate the 1+ armor save.

I'm gonna try whith killing blow next time, thanks!
I did know 1 was a faliture, but thanks anyway!

Anyway, as Mercules suggested, any weapon/spell/nasty effect that doesn't allow armor saves can work (Bonecrusher ? ).