2500 pts vs Skaven in 8th edition

Pts changed to 2500, see below for new list

Me and a friend agreed to try out 8th edition tomorrow (partly to get him motivated to paint again), so we're doing a small 2k games, using the book provided at our store. Since we dont have the book in our hand, and the list provided everywhere can be a bit misleading, we agreed to avoid all items from the book.

From what he shown me, his list will be 3 giant unit of clanrat (30+), jessail (sp?), 1 cannon, 1 Zapper. He'll have a lvl4 mage to try out magic.

So here is my list :

Tyran w/ HeavyArmor + DaemonKillerScar + CathayanLongsword + Greatskull + Mawseeker

Butcher w/ Bangstick + Skullmantle
Bruiser w/ HeavyArmor + BattleStandardBearer + CannibalTotem

6 Bulls w/ Bellower + StandardBearer
6 Bulls w/ Bellower + StandardBearer
6 Ironguts w/ Bellower + StandardBearer
33 Gnoblar Fighter

2 Gnoblar Scraplauncher

2 Gorger




My goal with this list is to have something i would bring against just about any army, so nothing against skaven only.

Tyran will go with BSB in Ironguts unit (I think, might change to have them with bulls), Butcher going into one of Bulls unit.

Gnoblar will be to take the heat of the zapper (or the cannon).

Not sure what we'll do about Greatskull, but i think he's gonna hate it. Basically he's gonna implode as soon as he roll a double 1, 2, 3 or 6 ? nice.

And wow, Cannibal Totem? that's something huge now that we got 2 rank that can fight. But that agains just about anything, and wow.

What you guys think? I wish i could get my unit a bit bigger (to be able to get max attack at least the first 2 round), but i'm running out of pts.

You can't have 2 scrappies with only 1 unit of gnoblars. 

We still have those restrictions.  Maybe make the other unit 20 and try and find points for another 7 for your second unit of 20...

Ditch the second gorger, buy 7 more gnoblars, split the unit of 40 gnoblars into two units of 20, this gives you 61 points (If my maths is correct) to spend elsewhere. Afterall, the one gorger should be enough to hunt war machines at the back, such as the cannon, the jezzails etc. And, in a game against such big blocks of infantry, and the removal of range guessing, Scrappies are invaluable. Skaven will soon learn to fear our Scraplauncher

JJ

You can't have 2 scrappies with only 1 unit of gnoblars. 

We still have those restrictions.  Maybe make the other unit 20 and try and find points for another 7 for your second unit of 20...

awh crap, i though they scrapped those....

the idea of 2 Gorger is to get as much chance as possible to have one come up soon in the game. Maybe i could remove a StandardBearer in the unit my BSB will be in?

oh, which reminds me... do we still need look out gnoblar?

Only if there is less than 5 normal ogres in the unit... I think (sitting at work, don't have my book in front of me)

Try not to drop the standard where your BSB is going, that helps alot with CR having both.  Maybe drop one ogre bull (make 1 unit 5 + 1 character = 6 models)

That should give you more than enough points, and with the extra points maybe you will be able to give 1 of your bull units some equipment.

i considered Light Armor or Ironfist, but i'm not sure either is really better than another body.

Ironfist would be nice if more than 1st rank could use the extra attack. Since its not the case, i think i'd rather stick with Armor Piercing.

I'll need to rework my list, i'll try to bring a v2.0 later today.

so, our plan changed, and we're playing instead tomorrow during the day. Since we wont be having the rulebook in front of us, we'll use pretty much all the confirmed rumor from warseer to play our game. Also since we'll have more time, we are planning on a 2500 pts. (what we think will be the new standard)

So, here is my new listing :

Tyrant w/ Heavy Armour + Daemon Killer Scar + Cathayan Longsword + Greatskull + Mawseeker

Butcher w/ Bangstick
Butcher w/ Blood Cleaver + Skullmantle
Bruiser w/ Heavy Armour + Battle Standard + CannibalTotem

7 Bulls w/ Bellower + Standard Bearer + LookOutGnoblar
7 Bulls w/ Bellower + Standard Bearer + LookOutGnoblar
7 Ironguts w/ Bellower + Standard Bearer + LookOutGnoblar
20 Gnoblar
20 Gnoblar

2 Scraplauncher
2 Leadbelchers

1 SlaveGiant
2 Gorger

Not sure if i should go with just one slaughtermater or 2 Butcher. The difference in pts is pretty small, and i think with our magic, 2 butcher is better than 1 slaughtermaster for now (especially with the whole "you miss you cant cast anymore")

I kind of wanted to get Runemaw in the list, but couldnt find in the book if i can give it to any standard bearer or if it has to be to a BSB

Bangstick kinda sucks now because you must use powerdice to cast it(and it can miscasts and be destroyed  ) Also go for the slaughter master because he gives you better magic defense(+4 to dispell). Another good thing about the slaughtermaster is that you can go brahamir statue and skullmantle for an epic -4 leadership on skaven and then spam braingobbler.(unless you don't want to tailor your list) I recommend not taking greatskull on your tyrant because it will make your slaughtermaster miscast when you try to buff the tyrants unit as well. You can take the runemaw on your ironguts so find the 20points as it's the only good banner we have.
I really don't like the cannibal totem as it will only work when fighting rat ogres and from what you said your friend may not have any. If you really want a magic banner on your bsb go for a warbanner, it will help your unit more than the cannibal totem. However I recommend a combat/defense oriented bsb with something like sword of strife(+2 attacks, 40 points), potion of speed(+3iniative for one turn, 5 points), and enchanted shield(5 points).Also give him heavy armor and a luck gnoblar. This is for an all out offense bsb but if you want him to survive give him the armor of fate(4+ward,heavyarmor, 50 points) and a luck gnoblar. take the armor of fortune(5+ward, 35points, lightarmor?) on your tyrant instead of the greatskull. An take wyrdstone, skullmantle, and either a siegebreaker or the brahamir statue on your slaughtermaster(instead of the 2 butchers). Also if you can find another 188 points you can  consider investing in a bruiser with CLS and an Araby Carpet(gives flying, 50 points) to hunt warmachines. To find the points for the recomended changes drop some of the other magic items(greatskull,bangstick) and consider dropping the slavegiant because without giantbreaker I don't see a point for them in the list(other than dying on turn 1 to jezzail fire). Hope my suggestions helped and hopefully your eyes didn't bleed reading this wall of text.
Tell me if you want me to pm you the new common magic item list because there is lots of great stuff in it for ogres and I doubt you or your buddy has seen it yet.

dont really want to use item from 8th edition, since we agreed not to.

Removed the cannibal totem and replaced it with runemaw.

Greatskull is a must i think (especially since i think we'll see a whole lot of dice thrown in spellcasting in 8th edition)... worst case scenario, i'll cast on 1 dice on my Tyran units.

Not too fond of removing the Giant. Worst case scenario, he'll be a great target for everything with ranged attacks. Gotta see if his crush attack are that strong too.... doubtful, but could be a life changer for the big one.

Bangstick, well, since its a pretty low casting value, i pretty much just want to try and see how boundspell works in 8th edition. Could be the last time i use it, but i doubt, i kinda like my stick-of-love.


still got 29 pts left for some goodies... or to tweak my list some more.

Give your IG unit the warbanner and then put your BSB with them. That adds up to alot of static CR (alot for ogres)

I've run a simmilar unit in 7th a few times. 3 IG with warbanner + BSB with a big weapon of sorts. helps hunting big things.

I'm gonna give a quick report on that list i brought.

First, my friend is a cheater... he used the 4+ ward save item from 8th edition despite our agreement.

Crack's call : no good vs big units
big unit : amazingly good.
IG vs Bulls : imho, the IG arent worth the extra pts right now. Sure, we're gonna hit last anyway, but i felt like unless you're facing high T or high Armor, IG are too much.
7 Ogre strong unit : best number. A 8th could be nice for extra survivability, but i think 7 is the bare minimum for max effectiveness.
Gut Magic : amazing with the new rules.
Slaughtermaster vs Butcher : i think Slaughtermaster will be needed just to dispell. With so many dice being thrown, an extra +2 could definately help survive big magic phase.
Scraplauncher : Wow. just wow. the no partial hit and no S7 insta-kill really gave it a new life.



we lasted until 6th turn. For the last 3 turn, he crack's called 2 of my nearly untouched unit to turn them into dust (yes, even my Tyran at 5 initiative). Until that point, it was a clear win in my favor.

Sounds like a very good game. You make a good point about IG's in 8th. Against low armour/T models, they aren't really going to be that great, and points-for-effectiveness they aren't worth as much as bulls imho.

Shame about your friend bringing along an item that was agreed not to be brought...

JJ

See I knew going all out with new magic items was a good idea, then the game would have been fair 

jk but with the rules not even out yet there will be alot of "cheating" for the next couple months. Even the GW staff still get rules wrong where I play...