8th Edition Q&A

So, I am finally allowed to talk about the 8th ed book with everyone.  Hragged put together a great set of questions to get us started.

1. How does the save system work for models that have an armour save, ward save and/or regen? Same as 7th or has it changed?
You may always take your armor save (if you would be allowed one) and then if you have both ward and regenerate you will have to choose which one you want to take.


2. Can Ogres use the Flying Carpet magic item?
Oh hell yes, and I expect to see some rockin’ conversions soon.

3. Are fear causers immune to panic?
Short answer: no.  Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

4. Do enemy units have to take a fear test every combat phase?
Yes.

5. If a unit fails a fear test, are they reduced to WS1 and A1 or simply reduced to WS1? Does it last for the remainder of the combat, until the start of the player's next turn, or does it last for that combat phase only?
WS1 and it lasts until they pass a fear test, but they must continue to test each round, pass or fail.

6. Is the Bull Charge special rule in the rulebook now? If so, has it changed from what is printed in the Ogre book?
It is not in the main rule book.  We will still follow the rules from our army book.

7. Could you please briefly outline the bonuses provided by each command group model?

Standard bearer: as 7th ed.  However a captured standard only gives up 25vp’s in 8th.
Champion: as 7th ed.  However if a champion defeats a hero or lord in a challenge +50 vp’s are awarded.
Musician: as 7th ed. Except that a musician allows for ‘swift reform’ maneuvers.  A swift reform allows a unit to make normal move (not march) after reforming and allows a unit to shoot (with the normal -1 penalty for moving.)

8. What bonuses does a BSB provide?
Same as 7th ed.  With the following bonus: allows units to re-roll ALL leadership tests within 12”.  Panic, Break, Stupidity, Primal Fury, etc.
Give 100 vp’s if slain in close combat (including being run down.)

9. How does line of sight work in 8th?
True line of sight.  Hard cover for shooting through models.  I’m not going to answer endless questions or enter debates on this one.  Get the book, read it and play through a few games before worrying about it.  All the games I have played it has worked out fine.

10. Any changes to stupidity?
Yes!  ‘Suffering’ from stupidity makes you immune to psych.  Hello Mawseeker  

11. Are models only march blocked if they fail a leadership test?
It’s more like they’re not march blocked if they pass one.

12. Any changes to how the brace of handguns works?
Just as good as ever.  ‘Over packed’ on the first shot is gone.

13. Any changes to Gut Magic under the new magic system?
Other than it being generally easier to cast, no.  Slaughtermasters gaining +4 to cast is going to be handy for example.

14. What are the rules for army construction? Any Ogre book army restrictions lifted?
Restrictions are lifted.  In a one off contradiction to the normal rules, the BRB supercedes whatever system of army selection you have in your book.  You follow the rules listed in the BRB which are as follows:
Up to 25% Lord
Up to 25% Hero
Minimum of 25% core
Up to 50% special
Up to 25% rare

1-2999 no more than 3 duplicate special choices and 2 duplicate rare choices
3000+ no more than 6 duplicate special choices and 4 duplicate rare choices

In 3000 points you could have 6 units of 2 leadbelchers and 6 scrap launchers, and whatever else you wanted so long as you did not go over your 50% special allotment.

15. How many ranks do Ogres fight in, how many Ogres make a rank, and how many Ogres are required to make a horde unit?
2 ranks like everyone else (with up to 3 attacks from the second rank per model), 3 ogres to make a rank and 6 ogres wide to make a horde.

16. How many attacks does the second rank of Ogres get, and how many attacks does the third rank in an Ogre horde unit get?
3 and 3.

17. Does the Stomp rule exist and work as the rumours suggested?
The Stomp rule does indeed exist and no it doesn’t work as suggested.  It is not an additional attack, it is an additional hit!  One per model in base contact, Always Strikes Last.

18. Is the S7 autokill vs chariots (i.e. our Scraplaunchers) rule gone?
Yes, no more S7 auto splat.

19. Can you always wound on a 6, no matter how low your S is and how high the enemy's T is?
Yes.  And with the number of ways to buff toughness out there, this is very important.

20. Can you share any more common magic items with us?
Warseer pretty much has these nailed.

21. Are the Allies rules only for games with multiple players on the same side, or do they allow you to play with multiple armies yourself?
All games are an agreement between players, so you really can do whatever you like.  The rules however were included with games consisting of more than 2 players in mind.

22. Battle Missions - how many are there and how do they work?
There are 6.
The first one is the beloved pitched battle.

23. Scenarios - how many are there and do any of them involve Ogres?
M\None that specifically involve Ogres no.  There are 11 of them with a few that have subsets for specific historical battles.

24. Roughly how much of the 500+ page rulebook is rules? What makes up the rest of the book, and in what quantity?
Roughly 200 pages is rules.  100 pages of back story for all the armies. 50 or so pages of miniature show cases.  Campaign rules, scenario’s, legendary battles…you name it.  The book is absolutely beautiful, full color and just packed with information.
There is also a picture in the Ogre back story that I have never seen before.  Looks like pencil drawn and shows a large ogre riding a massive rhinox.

Thanks Dooks.
Great info.

If you could answer more questions: fine, if not: fine too .

You mentioned the hordes rules for ogres: how does that work then? I read the hordes rule more as a 10 wide unit of infantry in stead of other kinds of units.

for the horde rule to affect ogres we only need 6 wide...not 10 that's what is meant and that allows us to fight in 3 ranks

I'll be happy to answer whatever 

If a unit of Monstrous infantry is 6 wide it gains the 'horde' rule.  A Horde fights with an additional rank than it would normally.  So a unit of Ogres, which normally fights with 2 ranks would then fight with 3.

This is the vaunted 54 attack mob. (With 6 stomp hits for 60)

I've actually used this unit in a game and the results were stunning.  I lost probably 5 bodies in the unit throughout the game and the units combat effectiveness barely took a hit. 

Some warnings though: Runemaw is a must with magic getting deadlier and we're going to havbe to work as hard as ever to avoid being shot to death.  Of course we've also got 54 wounds in the unit to soak up.  Being able to take more gorgers is going to help a lot and the flying bruiser warmachine hunter goes a long way to making me feel better 

Everything is lookin pretty good for ogres. Lookin from school computer

Oh yeah, and take a close look at that BSB.  Re-rolling all our psycology just made Ogres take a huge jump up the food chain.

I really don't think I over stated the case when I said they were a tier 1 army these days.  And by tier 1 I mean that anyone can pick them up and have a good chance of doing well while an expert can use them to brutal effect in a competitive environment.

6. Is the Bull Charge special rule in the rulebook now? If so, has it changed from what is printed in the Ogre book?
It is not in the main rule book.  We will still follow the rules from our army book.

I'll hope you can answer this one, but will we still be hampered with a special range regarding impact hits when the others (Trolls, Minos etc.) do not?

And will the Tyrant get 1d3 impact hits like the Doombull?

Oh, and thanks for compiling these nice answers (and questions). 

Thank Hragged for the questions!

We're still restricted by our army book as far as impact hits go and no boost for our big guys.  At least not yet.  I have heard strong whipsers that our book is still lined up for this year or possible early next.  The new artwork in the main book certainly lends credence to that.  And no, I'm not getting this from BoLS

So we're going to have just a touch of impact hit envy going on for a bit but honestly, it's not a game changer for us.  I played against a large Mino army with my ogres and proceeded to beat seven shades of shit out of them with Ironguts.

No impact hit in the world replaces good generalship.

But the stomp is added? 

Oh yeah, we get all that stomp.  And it works like an additional Always Strikes Last impact hit, so WS3 doesn't effect it.

What about BSB, have they lifted the restrictions on them in general - like no GW. And how is it with his magic allowance - I'm especially interested if he can mix magic items and banners

Thanks

horde also get to have everyone fighting, even if not everyone is in base contact, right? or was it just a rumor?

@Enkiel, that was just a rumor.  You must have someone in front of you who is in base contact with an enemy.

@greg, no general changes to the BSB.  We're still going to be restricted by our army book on the items and gear we can take.  However, we really don't need a magic banner on him.  Rerolling panic checks is like a magic banner all on it's own!  I also am a huge fan on Mawseeker, which just got a billion times better.

For my part my Bruiser BSB is going to be taking nothing but defensive magic items.  Right now I have settled on a 4+ ward for him.  That and T5 should keep him alive and supporting the army for 6 turns.

Personally I applaud the BRB for not over riding any one's army book (with the exception of army comp).  Some of us will still be stuck with some inferior rules for the time being, but on the other hand we still benefit from a few things as well.

Just getting rid of the 0-1 on tyrants and the 1+ on bulls is enough to give our army a new lease on life if you ask me.

the lifting of the restrictions is massive.  The one thing I can't find out much about is skirmishers though....

a couple of gnoblar horde blocks will be on their way though...cheap and now extra effective!

Not too much to say about skirmishers.  They're no longer a 40K unit

They are in fact stubborn when fighting in the woods.  They for a 'loose' formation (honestly I can't see why you don't just rank them up for simplicities sake.)

Wow, thanks, this really helps clarify some areas. You've been more than generous in answering so many questions and it makes up for the fact you were being so vague beforehand!

Thanks for the great information Dooks! If you didn't already get a pet gnoblar for this you'll have one headed your way from me real soon.

Thanks a lot for this!

So did my beloved trappers take a hit? Is the "checkerboard" skirmisher rank up true? Do they still have 360 LOS?

Sorry for being so vague before, I was under some serious restrictions.

Ogres are my favorite army, so when I could finally talk about the new rules, I wanted to make sure you guys got the straight dope first.  I also prefer answering questions that relate to our army overall 

Common magic item combo that I am loving: Seige Breaker + Tricksters shard.  Siege Breaker is -5 to your armor and the shard makes enemies re-roll successful ward saves.  All for the low total price of 45 points!

@chito: our trappers did indeed take a hit sadly.  Checker board is in.  But if you stick them in a woods they become stubborn which is something I guess.

Is the restriction stating you cannot take a Slaughtermaster unless you've already taken a Tyrant also removed?

Indeed it is.

The book states that in a one off change from the normal rules, the army composition rules contained within the BRB superceed and take precedence over whatever is in your army book.  You follow the guide lines in the main book exclusively.

Hence we are now allowed to run our armies as we see fit!

are you 100% sure about the horde rules on 3rd rank (that they fight with all their attack?)

Just had an argument with a friend over this (we havent looked at the book yet, working and all).

They fight with all their attacks, up to 3.  So a giant unit of maneaters for example would have the front rank fighting with their basic 4 attacks (5 if BoC) and the ranks behind them would offer 3 support attacks per model.

It's really straight forward in the book.

So that means we can have 2 Gorgers with other rare choice shizzle!     

Other questions if you'd indulge me Dooks?


Do ranked units move as fast cav? (i.e. no manouvering?)

Skirmishers, 360 LOS, -1 to hit when shooting at, recieve rank bonus.
Which are true?

Killing blow depending on what size model you are, i.e. Ogres can KB other Ogres? True or false?

How do you know this info?

Thanks in advance 

They fight with all their attacks, up to 3.  So a giant unit of maneaters for example would have the front rank fighting with their basic 4 attacks (5 if BoC) and the ranks behind them would offer 3 support attacks per model.

It's really straight forward in the book.

thats the basic rule for standard unit...

but the 3rd rank in a horde is the same too?

If so, hello 750pts Bulls unit

Warbands are no longer official rules and more or less stopping being so when GW took the PDF down. I have copies and I and another person were in the process of revamping them when 8th was announced. We -may- pick the project back up after 8th has had a shakedown period but it seems as though 1k isn't a horrible point amount to play at in 8th other than the number of models involved for new players.

The GW doubles tournaments are usually 750 points, so I guess 750 is the new 500.
On a side note. I started playing last year Oktober and attended the Frenzy tournament in Amsterdam in January. I have to say as a starter those doubles tournaments are great.

There was mention about a new type of charge, there is a regular charge and something else, I just cant remember the name at this time

There is something called Devastating Charge, but it's a special rule rather than a type of Charge. If you have Devastating Charge then you get +1 Attack when you charge.

Sounds very 40kish...sigh.  So what gets that exactly?

Sounds very 40kish...sigh.  So what gets that exactly?

nothing at the moment has that rule, although there is a common magical item that grants it (can't remember what type, might be a banner).

its something I might expect brets to get as a special rule, or maybe things like rhinox riders.

Older Books
At the time of this writing, some Warhammer Armies books contain a different army selection system from the one presented here.  However, and in a one off contradiction to the principle stated under Basic Rules and Advanced Rules, the system included here replaces and takes precedence over whatever system is printed in your Warhammer Armies Book.

If that doesn't cover it, nothing will.

Added emphasis in bold.  The point is that individual unit restrictions are not army restrictions (even if they will affect other unit choices).  It is the old slot system that is being replaced.

So I wouldnt start using slaughermaster led armies just yet for instance....

What talonz said is indeed correct, and I have it on good authority that the FAQ will NOT change that (but don't take my word for it, as I have known my source to mislead me in the past, though infrequently as it may be).

Also, one thing nobody has mentioned for the new "Ogre lance" thing ya'll are talking about is that you will rarely have your full 54 attacks. The book makes it clear that the only models behind the front rank which can attack are models which are behind those in base contact (and so on). All what needs to be done to defeat "the lance" is to maintain 5 wide units of infantry (at 100-120mm in width). 6 wide Ogre units are 240mm across. At best 4 ogres will be in BtB, meaning that a horde formation will only achieve 36 attacks. And against ogres running this formation, it becomes worth it for your opponents to run their normally horde-sized units 5 wide. Such a large unit is unlikely to fall apart anytime quick, and is most likely half the cost of your own horde unit, meaning that the opoosing player won't have any problems leaving them in a meatgrinder v. ogres, since its knocking a good 750 points of the ogre army out of play via tarpit (effectively).

the ogre lance kinda refers to running a unit of 6 ogres in a 3x2 formation (or possibly 9 ogres in a 3x3 formation) - not going for the 6-wide horde.

had another game tonight using 2 blocks of 6 bulls in this formation and a unit of 3 ironguts joined by 3 characters in a 3x3 formation.

I was very happy with how these units performed.  By the end of the game I'd lost one of the bull units, but the other 2 blocks were intact and ready to keep fighting.

just noticed:  the rule that stopped a character having 2 bound spells seems to have vanished - this will allow a butcher to take both a bangstick and the ruby ring or ruin (arcane and enchanted item) and between them and the bonecruncher, be able to throw 3 magic missiles a turn

just a thought...

True, but it costs PD to do those now.

I've found that its not a problem - also, failing to cast a bound spell doesn't break concentration so you can 1-dice a bangstick or ruby ring happily

How do you think Greatskull will work in 8th edition. ( couldnt find an answer in other topics )
What i have heard you now miscast on double 6s the same time you cast irresisteble force.
So do they miscast on double 6s, 2s and 3s? That would be my guess but it seems ......... odd.

Dunno if you know anything about army erretas but what do you think?

greatskull makes you miscast if you roll a double 1, double 2, double 3 - just as it always has.  If you roll a double 6 you get irresistable force AND a miscast.

with people throwing more dice at spells, and miscasts being deadlier, it has become a bit more useful.

greatskull makes you miscast if you roll a double 1, double 2, double 3 - just as it always has.  If you roll a double 6 you get irresistable force AND a miscast.

with people throwing more dice at spells, and miscasts being deadlier, it has become a bit more useful.

Although the miscasts being deadlier hasn't changed for the greatskull, because the miscast table of the ogre book is used, right?

No, that's the Helheart. Greatskull uses whatever the regular miscast table is for that race.

No, that's the Helheart. Greatskull uses whatever the regular miscast table is for that race.

Of course, my bad!

Great information, thanks for answering so many questions!

Woah... old thread.

Beware of threadomancy guys. Thanks.