Army-wide rule for ogres?

Each of the new books has seen an army-wide rule apply to the force.

High elves = ASF
Dark Elves = Hatred
WoC = re-roll panic tests
Lizzies = cold-blooded

and so on.  So my question to you all is:

"if you could pick a special rule to be army-wide for the new ogre book, what would it be?"

to my mind it needs to be in keeping with the nature of the ogres and yet also needs to have an effect that will allow our boys to compete.

I'm thinking: stubborn

ogres get stuck in and see all "thinlings" as lesser than them - and, in fact, as food rather than opposition.  Stubborn would reprsent this quite well.

I'd like to hear what your ideas would be

wildcard.

I think army wide stubborn would be too powerful for Ogres and it is more likely to be applied to a new Dwarf book.

Some sort of increased survivability from shooting/magic would be my ideal, or an army wide musician rule so we don't have to buy them but always get them.

Burp-alot: every unit has a musician, curtosy of randroid  Fits in well with fluff!
Or roll down-hill (warning: this is a joke) When you are fighting atop a hill you can nominate to roll and every person takes a bull charge that penetrates ranks, like a bolt thrower, to represent people falling on each other. 

How about the one that already exists? Bullcharge anyone?

Granted, it's so crap I actually forgot about it in my last game, but it's still an army-wide rule.

You really didn't need bull charge. The only good thing about bullcharge is the fact that shooting models have to choose whether to not get bullcharged, but no stand&shoot and -1 to hit because of moving/ get bullcharged and stand&shoot

I think the way GW considers stubborn, as well organized, veteran troops that are able to stand up in the face of great danger, doesn't fit Ogres army-wide.

And, we already have two army-wide rules in Bull Charge and Fear.

Well Fear hardly counts - who doesn't have that? And it isn't technically an army wide rule as Gnoblars don't cause Fear.

Bull Charge is a poor alternative to ASF, Hatred, ItP, etc ..

Unless they make it more usable by removing the restrictions.

Killing blow army wide rule? The massive weapons wielded by the ogres could kill a man if it hit him right.

Might be to overpowered against expensive characters, but considering our low WS and few numbers, i'd say its not worse than hatered. Other than that it might be fitting to have something that allowed us to regain wounds, fitting with the Maw and the eating and stuff.

But bull charge is vital, just remove the restrictions and im happy

prehaps if ogres had a army wide rule like this

Thick skinned

Ogres have extraordinarly thick skins(and skulls) that can shrug off small pinpricks with ease.

ogres have a 5+ ward save vs shooting attacks of Str 4 or lower that do not have the armor piercing rule.

and no restrictions on bull charge.

and ogre clubs keep the AP rule even with two weapons.
"it's a 7 foot metal studded log for Emperors sake"
"O its not as bad when he has two of em"

Armour piercing, the ogres are armed with massive weapons that in a humans hands would be considered great weapons.
Scaly skin +6, the hide of the ogre is tough and leathery akin to light armour. This is actually in the fluff.

Yeah having a general +1 AP besides the S4 one would be awesome. Might be a bit much though. I like it for Bulls which is what they tried to do with Ogre Clubs.

Thick skinned 6+ save should be in. Its in the fluff and would help a lot. That would give IG a 4+ save which is huge! Makes facing AP 1 or 2 something you can survive and still gives you some save. Makes taking LA on Bulls something to think about since it gets them to 5+, 4+ with IF and a 3+ in CC. Cool!

Remove restrictions on Bull Charge.

Give us some kind of rank bonus for 3 Ogres wide.

The distance restrictions removed from the the Bull charge would be nice.

I like the idea of Killing Blow as army wide, as Gorgers already have it. Maybe restrict this to Str 5 or Greater attacks.

Hatred of Dwarves.

In the past I've objected to army-wide AP, my reasoning being that if it wasn't a club it was a GW or handgun, and both already have enough S to reduce armour saves by quite a bit.

However, having played WoC recently, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. Most definitely not overpowered.

I'm wary of army-wide thick skin. A lot of shooting out there can completely negate it, and we'd still be paying the points for it. How about that 6+ save for Maneaters upwards?

stubborn = awesome 

How about

Always Hungry: Whenever a unit/char kills a model it eats it and gains one of its abilities at random. This holds for stubborn, regeneration, terror, frenzy, hatred, always strikes first and poison.

Nope, thats already a chaos troll ability.

The Trolls have to regenerate to get a chance for a roll on their table. I consider that different from stealing abilities, but ... stubborn is fine too

army wide immunity to poison (rather than just butchers) - reflecting the ogre's constitution

army wide Magic resistance - the fluff says they are resistant to magic influences

let's see where our creativity can take us

I`d love to see all ogres hitting as if they had the siegebreaker (in terms of hitting against Ini). I think thats very fluffy, although it wouldn`t change a lot against most armiest out there   

Bullcharge should be changed to negate ranks (and perhaps, other passive boni too) when charging, even from the front. When there are some bulls pushing, who cares about how many thinlings are pushing back? 

Army wide resistance to poison definetely - in your face skinks! 

I'd replace Ogre club with all Ogre attacks in close combat counting as Armour Piercing....and a
Gut Plate/Scaly Skin save - a basic 6+ armour save which can be added to as per normal...

Any of those and fix Bull Charge and we'd be in a much happier place 

well, with the bullcharge restriction lifted, I´m thinking that could be a cool army wide rule. Plus, make all ogre weapons AP, 6+ gutplate save for free and we´re good.

Perhaps some of us should try the most popular changes out with our gaming groups and see what the results are.

More meat for the meat eaters:
Ogres eat anything that dies, they don't care if it is ogres or enemies.  They do not need to take Panic checks from shooting, other units breaking from combat or dying.

or possibly.

I'm hungry!!!!!!:
Kind of like frenzy lite.  Each Ogre gets an extra attack but Ogres suffer from the Bad Temper rule.  Only they aren't charching cause they are angry.  They want to charge because they are hungry.

or maybe
Get in my Belly:
On any pursue, Ogre units roll 3d6.  That is good eats gettin away.

or possibly:
No time to fight, eating:
Ogres can choose not to pursue and instead feast on their newly slain enemies (tastier while fresh!).  They heal d3 wounds.

Not that any of those are well balanced.  But ideas!

How about.

good eats

anytime the ogres break an enemy. They must make a Ld test to persue.

if test is passes the ogres may persue.

If test is failed the ogres stop to feast on the dead, they remain were they are but count as causing terror for the next phase(if you saw your friends dissappearing down an ogres mouth you'd be pretty scared too)

The ogre may choose to fail this test automatically.

So we like the scaly skin idea, (or leathery skin more like it)
magic resistance 1, could be represented by trinkits the ogres wear of they simply don't give a $&#@ about magic

Totally agree with what Barney says. Stubborn is unimaginative and overpowered. Bloodhunger (or whatever the Minotaurs have) would be interesting - adds a level of tactical consideration whilst sticking to the fluff.

i'm so for the Immunity to Poison, but the problem is that it's Very Limiting... the only time i've ever been poisoned was the one time i fought the Lizardmen.the Thick Skin is also "eh".   the problem is most of these are all limiting to the overall game. 

ASF, Hatred, re-roll panic tests,  cold-blooded; can you even name an army that these would not be useful against?

how is Immune to Poison going to help you against Dwarves?
how is armor vs shooting going to help you against Daemons?

Personally i love the Skirmish then Form-up rule the BoC have, but i don't want to steal it from them (unless of course they lose it in february).

While the Fear is pretty universal, how does this help against Chaos, Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts?
Impact Hits are okay, as long as you have X, Y & Z accounted for, your forms filled out in triplicate and stamped by a Clergyman at noon at the friday before the day you play the game?  (i'm trying to say there's a lot of limitations!)

so i'm thinking of a big guy/horde available attack.  How about this:
Random Stuff:  Use the rules for Sharp Stuff, but EVERYONE gets random stuff that they have on them (horse head, best throwing Gnoblar, Phil the Butcher's son, that tree that fell on me in the storm) to throw at people, STR per user, X2 attacks and everything, 8" range and usable if you march too!
not overpowering, unique, and still within the normal story of how OK operates but not stupid enough that nobody would forget it.

what do you say?