Tyrant and BSB Combo?

Just messing around on AB trying to mix some stuff up for different builds and was thinking about this one:

Tyrant: Greatskull, WSN, Greyback Pelt, Mawseeker, HA, Cathayan LS, Lucky (321pts)

BSB Bruiser: Jade Lion, Sw/Might, HA


The BSB would keep the Tyrant's Stupidity in check without taking away from the Tyrants points - thus making the Tyrant hard to hit AND wound, and still provides some form of magic protection to the unit. Having the Lion on the BSB would also allow re-rolls for those pesky terror (fear) checks.

The Skull should come as a surprise to magic users, and one surprise in this fashion could mean a dead enemy wizard. The rest of it is pretty self-explanatory.

So, if this makes sense, what if we put it in a unit with the Battle-Butcher build, and in a unit of Ironguts?

So we have the Tyrant and BSB as listed above with

Butcher: Siegebreaker, Skullmantle

IGs x4: SB/Warbanner

The entire unit breakdown would be:

5 attacks @ WS 7, str5, AP
4 attacks @ WS 5, str6
3 attacks @ WS 3 v. Int, str7
3 attacks @ WS 3, str6

and on the return fire (from whatever is left) they will have to choose on

T6, 5 wounds, 4+AS, 5+WS
T5, 4 wounds, 5+AS
T5, 4 wounds
T4, 3 wounds, 5+AS

The Butcher and Bruiser are kind of susceptible with weak to nothing AS, but this is nothing out of the ordinary for how I tend to run them. Also, ideally I would have a Trollguts, or at least a Toothcracker on the unit making it even tougher to wound. I am wondering about the Skullmantle though, I am assuming most units should be on "auto-break" once combats over, but there will be those units that arent susceptible to fear affects.

The Butcher can help get some spells on the unit and benefit from them as well, but my question would be would I be better served using a Gutlord on the unit instead of the Butcher?

What is everyone's thought on this unit as a whole? Thanks!

I have seen a build with Siege breaker Wyrdstone on a Butcher but you would then need a second Butcher for the Skullmantle.

The advantage of this build is you will have a Butcher who stays alive longer in Combat. Especially if he has a Luck Gnoblar & heals himself.

Another consideration is keeping your BSB alive, therefore Wyrdstone or Mawseeker on BSB.

I've been toying with the idea of a "Battle Butcher" as you suggested with the Wyrdstone and Siegebreaker. I think that could be a nice touch if you plan on running 2 Butchers - make the other a Bangstick/Scroll Butcher.

I don't like Greatskull. It's not good. Better off taking the two Thiefstones if it is the anti-magic you want.

im gonna have to agree with randroid on the magic resistance , thiefstones will be better, especially since this means your low on dd dice since your only gonn ahave 2 butchers.  I would go with the champ instead of a butcher.  The siege breaker butcher vs the irongut champ, vs all others will probobly be almost equal except the champ is 1/3 the cost.  also butchers in combat , just plain suck and the lack of any armor at all makes the champ a better investment in cc.  keep butchers back, if you want to throw the wyrdstone on the bsb go ahead, that leaves room for the thiefstones on the tyrant.  or give the tyrant the wyrdstone, better served here, and give the bsb a thiefstone.  the bsb's profile is a pretty good fighting machine as it is so you dont nessesarilly need any offensive items.  Support items like thiefstones, skullmantle, and jadelion are more effective imo.  remeber whenever this unit goes to combat our dependant damage will be from the tyrant anyways.  also don't forget the skullmantle works on break tests even on ITP, fear causing, and stubborn units.

My original builds were

Tyrant: Tenderiser, Gut Maw, WSN, Lucky
BSB : Sw/Might, GTSs x2

which worked ok - its just instead of targeting that unit with spells, once they find out about the Thiefstones they just target other things; and I have only lost my BSB once. Whereas with the Greatskull, it could outright kill them, and still pumps up my AS. Its experimental. Remember as well with a butcher in the unit, they can benefit from Trollguts ideally (4+Regen and MR2) or at least a Toothcracker (+1T across the unit and stubborn on LD9) - I think it may work. 

I think the WSN needs to stay on the Tyrant. He is too susceptible otherwise to not put it on him as backup and he is worth more points at base cost than a Butcher fully pointed. I run butchers like the rulebook says - butchers rely on the maw to protect them (hence the T5), and I think using points for anything else is just a waste really. And with the ability to replenish wounds, I dont think the Butcher needs anything to protect him - if you need it that bad, take the Bloodcleaver.

Aside from the unit as a whole and the butcher, I am more concerned with what people think about pointing the BSB and Tyrant like they are listed - would this be effective enough to field (regardless of what else I put in the unit or where)? 

come to think of it, ive always thought about using the greyback pelt.  but the thought of "the best defense is a good offense" comes to mind, and i end up staying with my tenderizer.  But if your looking for a RNF killing machine tyrant then it might be better.

Not just the RNF killer, he should fair very well in a duel as well, I just lessen my chances of getting the Overkill the Big T provides. With WS7 from the CLS combined with the GBP, most characters are going to need 5s to hit, and with T6 at least 4s to wound. Against RNF champs or just normal RNF altogether, they may need 6s to hit and wound or not even be able to wound if I have a Toothcracker in play. Its kind of like a defensive style dueler experiment.

Though I must admit, this build would have to prove to be quite amazing to takeover my standard Tenderiser/Gut Maw/WSN build...I have won many duels with +5 Overkill and regaining wounds with it, and he is another chariot/beast smacker at str7.

I want to give Sword of Striking a go, probably on a Bruiser hitting on 3's and sometimes 2's seems pretty good to me.

So...no one has addressed as to whether or not it is a good idea to point the Tyrant like that and the Bruiser in such a way as to "control" him and also allow rerolls on failed Psych tests by the unit. Thoughts please?

The Tyrant build seems good, however I personally don't like the BSB with just HA, he will die fast in combat even with T5. I have used a similar BSB build but if he gets targeted he seems to go down quite fast.

Maybe put the Wyrdstone or Mawseeker on the BSB and give the Tyrant the Thiefstones, Jade Lion on a 3rd Tanky Bruiser (IF, Greedy Fist, Mawseeker).

The Tyrant build seems good, however I personally don't like the BSB with just HA, he will die fast in combat even with T5. I have used a similar BSB build but if he gets targeted he seems to go down quite fast.

Well, I have been running him with Sw/Might GTSs x2 for some time, and even ran him that way through the Ard Boyz tournament and I havent lost him....yet... I am thinking about dropping the GTSs though as people wont target him after they know he has them anyway...

Yeah, and he could well get targetted, seeing as opponents will catch on that he is keeping the tyrant "in check"...

JJ

Yeah, and he could well get targetted, seeing as opponents will catch on that he is keeping the tyrant "in check"...

JJ

Very true

I must say though, I may give this build a go, as I am looking for exciting, new builds for my ogres. I am getting back into gaming with the fat guys, and your threads are certainly giving me a few ideas...

JJ

I must say though, I may give this build a go, as I am looking for exciting, new builds for my ogres. I am getting back into gaming with the fat guys, and your threads are certainly giving me a few ideas...

JJ

Cool keep me posted on what you come up with, I am in the same process at the moment - hence all my new posts

Yes, well, it will take me a while, cause it is for an all-ogre tournie, and I am very rusty with the big brutes... :/

JJ

Yes, well, it will take me a while, cause it is for an all-ogre tournie, and I am very rusty with the big brutes... :/

JJ

Well then you best just get out there and get on it buddy boy! We got skulls to crack! lol