"I'm still hitting a 80%+ win ratio with the ogres."

The quote in the title is from our very own Wildcard.

I would like very much to know how he does this.  Or if possible, how much can this be attibuted to his own skill (whats his win% with other armies, against certain players hopefully of equal or better skill, etc.) and against what armies (top 3? medium? soft?).

Id be curiuos to see if there something ive been doing wrong (What can I learn from your successes?) or what I could do better/differently?

Sorry to put you on the spot WC, but Im hoping this can be a good starter for all to learn from. 

I've had a few games with Wildcard, and part of this is how I developed as a player.
I'm not sure if WC would agree, but i think I have a pretty similar playing style to him, and now I win most of my games, with ogres, too.

Wildcard is a very skilled player, and deserves much credit

Alexandre the Great once said something like this: "I do not fear an army of lions led by a sheep - I fear an army of sheep led by a lion".

Simply put, IMO, there is no big secret. WC doesn't play Ogres in any other style than most of us (well, except for Paradigm, but that's recent). He is just an excellent player that uses his brains and approaches the game with the right mindset.

No problem Talonz

Thanks for the comment too Mindripper 1  I agree, btw, that your playing style has developed in a similar style as my own - something we can work on next year too!

My ratio across all my armies is similar I'm afraid - a little lower with the brets (about 70-75%), a little higher with the daemons (about 97%) and about the same with the tomb kings.  The WoC list has only had 3 games, so its too early to tell (currently at 100% though).

The bit about "against players of equal or higher skill" is a tough one though.  I don't want to sound bigheaded (and I know I probably will), but such opponents are just not that common.  In GT top-table (and equivalent tournaments) I meet up with such people and my record against them, judging by my placings over the last year, is good as well.  There are some players I hold in very high regard on the UK tournament circuit - and when I get to play agaisnt such people I always learn something new - but I've also found out that I'm not playing a lesser game than them at all.  I'm going to less tournaments than them and having not being doing so for as long, but I'm a little bit old than most and I can make experience tell on the table.

Generally though, when I'm in a gaming room I'm either the best player there or among them - and there is certainly no player who'd look at a matchup with me and think they didn't have a tough fight on their hands.

I believe this is down to three things:

1) Age.  At 34, and being a thoughful, competative and imaginative player of games since I was a young lad, I've got a lot of experience of managing both a game situation and my own internal composure.  I'm older than most of my opponents and, even if they've been wargaming longer, I've been gaming longer in general.  Its amazing what other games can teach you.  

2) Intelligence.  I have a high IQ, EQ and reading age.  I read the hobbit when I was 4.  I read lord of the rings (for the first time) when I was 7.  I read war and peace at 9.  I was always top of the class academically throughout my school years.  And, for the most part, I did that pretty much effortlessly.  I always say if I'd been more mature I'd have applied myself more back then and done even better - but such is hindsight.  I am a smart guy and, being a geek, I dedicate quite a portion of each day to thinking about gaming, mentally running lists, thinking about in-game situations, etc.  This is day-dreaming for me - but for a lot of the day I don't stop "playing" it.  When I'm in a room I know I'm there with the tools to get the job done as long as I apply them properly - and that I've been spending my time working that out!

3) Confidence.  I love swordplay and combat.  Mindripper has been up against me with a blade in his hands and he'll tell you that I have a certain....ruthlessness...that I can bring to bear in a situation if it is called for.  I am calm and respectful - I give my opponents the respect they deserve and no more.  More importantly, I can lock fear away.  Fear is an important emotion and its really useful - but its also a reluctant servant.  Fear has no place in battle.  Before - yep!  After - often.  But NOT during.  I am not over-confident, but I do have a sure appreciation of my own abilities.

I don't do self-modesty or self-exageration - both are dishonest and will get you into trouble (in life as well as in games) faster than almost anything else!

against what armies: all sorts really from tournaments all the way down to friendly club games.

The EAYP WFO games might help if you want to follow what I do (this type of game will be the only ones I do from now on).  Also, I'm taking a leaf out of Vaul's booka t going to be doing pics+voice over battler reports in the near future to try and help with this.

Other than that, seek out the best gamer you know and play against him/her as much as possible.  If you can't play them, watch them.  Use your empathy to play the game in your head as you watch and try and predict what they will do next.  If you get it right - kudos.  If you get it wrong, ask them when the game is over and try to understand why they made their decision.  Most of these gamers will be happy to help you - a really good player is always a good sport too

I wish you were over this side of the pond Talonz - if you ever are, look me up and we'll get a few games going

ta,

Wildcard.

Edit: Patuljak is right - there is no "big secret" escept perhaps that I'm also a stubborn git   I once read somewhere that a fight is not over until you win it - that kind of determination to keep going and do better is what its all about - its what keeps me painting with the liks of Corai around, and its doing me the world of good!

yes, I have, and may I say, I now own that blade, and, I've since learnt how to wield it

but, from the experience of actually knowing you personally Wildcard, I would completely agree with pretty much everything you've said

I want to ask this question just to make myself feel a little better from getting slaughtered bout the first year of my warhammer days, but was there ever a time when you didnt have such a high win ratio? like a learning stage?

Obviously I can't speak for wildcard, but I know he's been a gamer for a while, and so have I, so can have a guess, and atleast tell you my part.
For me, atleast the learning stage didn't take as long as a lot of beginners as I used to play a lot of other strategy and card games, wich although may not be the same as warhammer, they make you think in a similar way.


May I just say that I am NOT as good or as experienced as WC and I am NOT trying to speak for him, just try and give my point on the subject

Thanks for the reply WC, that was illuminating.

As I thought, there were some key factors here;

Experience. This is a big one.  As we play more and more players and armies, you get used to knowing what to expect, what to plan for, and can start planning ahead appropriately.  Im a long time player and a 40yo gamer myself, but my wfb experience despite going back to 95 actually only boils down to about 5 years tops with long gaps inbetween, and lately semiweekly games have been almost non existent.  I wish I could change that.

Intelligence.  Im a fairly smart guy I think, but nothing like your track record!  Im afraid my tendancy to gamble on things and get caught up on the fluff gets in the way here too.  People have told me Im quite analytical so perhaps I need to be more disciplined with myself in that regard.  So thinking things through without getting emotional is another key step in improving ones play.  One thing I remember from another game is "What can get me killed this turn?  Ok plan to avoid that.  Next, how can I win this turn?  Plan for that.  Got those 2 covered?  Then how can I advance my position this turn so as to lessen my chances of losing and increase my chances of winning?"  WFB has far bigger swings in momentum than the game I remember this from, but the principles are the same.

Confidence.  I think this mostly stems from both items above (exepeince breeds confidence, and intelligence helps provide the means to play through) but I would go a step farther and broaden this aspect into Determination.  Perhaps Discipline or a sense of Calm.  As you pointed out, there is no place for fear in the heat of battle.  One must be determined to move forward, even make mistakes as long as you learn from them, and seek to improve ones gameplay even if the game result if not at first what you sought (loss).

Anyways, brainstorming back at ya.  Good to see a top players mindset in this regard.

I just wish I could let go of how filthy certain armybooks are....Im not a forgiving person in that regard and Im afraid that it greatly distracts me!  And unforunately turns some opponents off as I voice those thoughts....must learn to corral those thoughts somehow...hrrm

Yeah I wish you were local WC, would love to throw down with you.

Don't get too hung up on losing a unit or two. If you take casualties but it puts you in a better position to win/do damage it is almost always worth it.

I share your frustration with balance and the army books but I am working to let it go.

For me I find an overall confidence in my abilities and not letting fear of a loss get to me help improve my game 100%.

Well as (funnily enough) Wildcard told me, before that sword fight, you ARE going to get hurt, and once you realise that, and accept it, you will be more likely to win. sacrifice.
This applies to everything, Chess, swordplay warhammer, even regular life.

Bad things doo happen, like losing a few units, but if you accept that, and make use of it, maybe even sacrifice something to set up a charge, you have the tactical advantage

Well as (funnily enough) Wildcard told me, before that sword fight, you ARE going to get hurt, and once you realise that, and accept it, you will be more likely to win. sacrifice.
This applies to everything, Chess, swordplay warhammer, even regular life.

Bad things doo happen, like losing a few units, but if you accept that, and make use of it, maybe even sacrifice something to set up a charge, you have the tactical advantage

and as I recall, I was the one that got hurt   Still, having 38 swordfights back to back will do that....

Its true though, pain is a part of life.  Not bad, not good, just a part of it.  I see a lot of gamers not want to sacrifice a model or unit for some reason or other (including the paint job!) - but everything is a sacrificial piece as long as it brings you what you want in the end.

to quote (or at least paraphrase) from bloodsport:

use any technique that works, never commit yourself to one style and keep an open mind.

Well I have been playing Warhammer Fantasy for just over 2 years and here are my tips.

1. Know the rulebook back to front, so if there is a dispute you can point to the right page/rule.
2. Know your own army and its strengths and weaknesses
3. Try to get good troop match ups when deploying
4. Pray to the dice gods

use any technique that works, never commit yourself to one style and keep an open mind.

rofl  van damme at his best

Wildcard's description of himself reminds me of Napoleon... heh - extremely intelligent, human calculator who could walk cool and calm into a field of battle with cannons and guns going off all around him (and many aiming for him!)

Speaking of Napoleon... I'm curious as to what you got out of War & Peace at 9... I read Moby Dick when I was 8, and have come to realize I might have missed something. Read War & Peace twice (and nearly everything else Tolstoy wrote, he's one of my favorites). I first read it when I was 24 and got about half way through before I figured out that the old idea of Tolstoy's clear and objective prose is a complete myth (based largely on the terrible Constance Garnet translations) and the whole book (except for the weird, angry diatribes against historiography) is hilarious satire of popular 19th century genres... from the vaudeville show that opens it to the "Happily Ever After" ending...

Any ways, I love Tolstoy and seize any opportunity to talk about him!

Back on topic, I doubt anything can replace the need to constantly experiment with strategies, list construction and to throw yourself against the toughest opponents you know.  I do pretty good (though am not particularly experienced with WHFB) in 40k and other games (Battletech!).  That's one thing that makes Ogres appeal to me... how "crappy" they are, which means lots of opportunities for improvement and experimentation. I like that.  I also like catastrophic losses...