To make our Slavegiant look even worse...

Not only does it have stubborn like every other Giant except ours, and not only can it take Chaos marks, but the new Chaos Giant, when fighting against big things uses the following table:
1-2 Yell and Bawl
3-4 Thump with Club
5-6 Chomp!

First of all he has Thump with Club in place of Throttle with Chain, which makes the Chaos Giant a lot better, just like every other Giant but ours, but secondly and most importantly Chomp! is in place of 'Eadbutt.

Chomp does an automatic D3 wounds and the giant is healed by how many wounds he inflicts.  Awesome!

Slave Giants suck.

How much is the new giant? Which sounds awesome by the way.

225 without marks.  Well worth it over our pathetic excuse for a Giant.

Ye something needed to be done for Giants attacks on non man sized troops that's for sure.

Hopefully our giant will get an upgrade when our OK Book is re done down the track.

I am getting used to the non stubborn Giant of ours, at least its cheaper.

It is also the highest Leadership troop we have.

I'd rather have a stat change to the slavegiant than have (stubborn) + (better attacks on big things).  Give him T6 and (due to being Broken) always pursues and flees on 3D6 and he's fine (200 pts.?)

Moving Maneaters to Special and making Gorgers 2 for 1 rare slot would add to his usefulness too....he'll have to compete with rhinox riders somehow....

picked up on warseer, the new stats for ogres in the chaos book

Ogres 35pts NEW
M6 WS3 BS2 S4 T4 W3 I2 A3 Ltd7 AS5+
heavy armour; Fear
Marks same as Warriors
Chaos Armour 5pts
Great Weapons 10pts
Extra HW 5pts
Musician 10pts
SB/Champ 20pts

what would you rather have. our standard ogre or this one? can give it marks and stuff, has heavy armour and can even have chaos armor and a great weapon. Ogre with great weapon and heav armour for 45 pts and not even in an OK list (+options for marks)

picked up on warseer, the new stats for ogres in the chaos book

Ogres 35pts NEW
M6 WS3 BS2 S4 T4 W3 I2 A3 Ltd7 AS5+
heavy armour; Fear
Marks same as Warriors
Chaos Armour 5pts
Great Weapons 10pts
Extra HW 5pts
Musician 10pts
SB/Champ 20pts

what would you rather have. our standard ogre or this one? can give it marks and stuff, has heavy armour and can even have chaos armor and a great weapon. Ogre with great weapon and heav armour for 45 pts and not even in an OK list (+options for marks)

Shall we make the full comparison, because this is a little one sided:

A chaos ogre with great weapon is 45 points, so let's compare it with an irongut.
options for marks and chaos armour. where the chaos armour is well worth it, but marks make them extra expensive
They are not core, they are only core when a special character leads the army.
They have -1 leadership
They have no bull charge what so ever (though I admit, when was the last time anybody got off a bull charge)
Chaos ogres are competing with chariots, knights and stuff, ironguts take up core choices

Our ironguts and bulls aren't that bad compared to chaos ogres.
especially if you take the so-called power creep in mind.

I imagine chaos orges get a re-roll for panic as standard? So with fear, they have better Ld in a general sense than ironguts.

But yeah, chaos ogres are not something i would overly worry about.  They are an un-outstanding unit in a sub-par army and that does not say great things about ironguts (much as i love them).

Also, our great weapon wielding heavy armor weaing ogres get one huge boost the chaos ones don't- Gut Magic.

i know i know.

but its sad to see ogres in a non ogre army outdo that in a basic setting.
We are forced to take butchers to have the full effect of our units. they don't

Besides, they get their own equally nasty magic support.

i know i know.

but its sad to see ogres in a non ogre army outdo that in a basic setting.
We are forced to take butchers to have the full effect of our units. they don't

Were is a basic chaos ogre better then an ogre bull?
A chaos ogre has a 5+ armour save and gives up an armour piercing club and a bull charge.
Now I'm not factoring in additional magic or unit upgrades.

Agreed with chaos armour and an extra handweapon it's better, but then again almost the points of an irongut and still strength 4.
chaos warriors will do a far better job then that.

yeah our giant does suck......

i know i know.

but its sad to see ogres in a non ogre army outdo that in a basic setting.
We are forced to take butchers to have the full effect of our units. they don't

Were is a basic chaos ogre better then an ogre bull?
A chaos ogre has a 5+ armour save and gives up an armour piercing club and a bull charge.
Now I'm not factoring in additional magic or unit upgrades.

Agreed with chaos armour and an extra handweapon it's better, but then again almost the points of an irongut and still strength 4.
chaos warriors will do a far better job then that.

 

Don't forget they re-roll panic as an army rule. this one makes a huge difference

Eh, there's only a 10% extra chance of passing a panic test at ld7 with a reroll than there is at ld8. But our ironguts get a better chance of passing ALL other ld tests.

Unless they have Throgg in the army, or are within 12" of their general, then they're as good as, if not better than Ironguts on all Ld tests.

That said, I don't think Chaos Ogres in a Warriors army will get used much, and the army as a whole seems to actually be as weak as Ogres.  I think it might still be a bad matchup for Ogres, but I can see Warriors of Chaos struggling against other armies just as bad if not worse than an Ogre army.

Finally, Warriors seem to only have one viable build, just like Ogres: all mounted Marauders, all Knights.  Don't expect to see anything with M4 in a Warriors of Chaos army after a month of so when everyone gets sick of how awful M4 is in an army without any shooting (to speak of), or skirmishers, or flyers (other than EXPENSIVE heroes), or scouts.  Fast cav is fine and dandy, but it only gets you so far, and won't help against Peg Knights or Vampire Flying Circuses or Chameleon Skinks or etc., etc.

picked up on warseer, the new stats for ogres in the chaos book

Ogres 35pts NEW
M6 WS3 BS2 S4 T4 W3 I2 A3 Ltd7 AS5+
heavy armour; Fear
Marks same as Warriors
Chaos Armour 5pts
Great Weapons 10pts
Extra HW 5pts
Musician 10pts
SB/Champ 20pts

what would you rather have. our standard ogre or this one? can give it marks and stuff, has heavy armour and can even have chaos armor and a great weapon. Ogre with great weapon and heav armour for 45 pts and not even in an OK list (+options for marks)

Another point of comparison is a Bull armed with an ironfist and light armor with a chaos ogre armed with chaos armor and an additional hand weapon.

To compare prices, the Bull is 43 and the chaos ogre is 45; pretty close.

Unfortunately, the chaos ogre blows the bull out of the water. The bull can choose between a 4+ save in combat or an additional attack. To contrast, the chaos ogre gets a 4+ save all the time and the extra attack all at the same time.

Unless they have Throgg in the army, or are within 12" of their general, then they're as good as, if not better than Ironguts on all Ld tests.

It's the other way around. If they are within 12" of the general or Throgg then they are as good as, if not better, than ironguts on all ld tests. Unless they start with MoU, then they are better, but still don't get gut magic.

Should be a period there, not a comma.

So someone says our ogres are better, I reply with:
Unless they have Throgg or are within 12" of their General.  Then they're as good as if not better on all Ld tests.

And there is no mark of Undivided.  Just an army wide rule that everything Chaos re-rolls panic.

So our ironguts are still better than their similarly equipped ogres, but marginally more expensive. We have generals too, and a higher leadership, and gut magic. The army wide reroll panic test is nice, but it is only a 10% boost over ironguts, and doesn't help with rallying, fear tests, break tests, or other ld based tests.

Yeah, I agree Chaos Ogres are crap.  In fact I think the entire Chaos army is crap, which I think I correctly expressed above.

But their Giant is better.  Which is what this thread is about.  Dunno who derailed it onto Ogre comparisons.  I mean, I could go look, but I'm not going to.

They have a good Giant.  The rest of the Chaos army is very beatable.  Maybe not beatable by Ogres, but certainly by every other army and maybe worse than Ogres.

I don't think it is *that* bad, but yes, they have a very good giant.